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12 year old Folsom boy commits suicide over bullying

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    • #175236

      EGL Admin
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      Very tragic. How horrible that a 12 year old would feel that he would be better off dead than deal with bullying. With as much emphasis that is placed on bullying in schools I would hope this would stop. We have talked to our kids about this and told them if they see anyone being bullied to let an adult know and let us know too so we can make sure it is being dealt with.

      http://www.sacbee.com/community/folsom-el-dorado/article4288714.html

      Folsom police are investigating the death of a 12-year-old middle-school student in his home this week, and students at schools where he attended were being offered counseling, officials reported Thursday.

      Thursday night, friends of seventh-grader Ronin Shimizu – members of the Vista Jr. Eagles cheerleading squad to which he belonged – organized a candlelight vigil near his home in Folsom.

      Ronin, who turned 12 in June, was enrolled at Folsom Cordova Community Charter School. Students there study independently at home and pursue the curriculum from the district. Teachers, parents and students meet every two weeks at Sutter Middle School.

      Folsom Middle School Principal John Bliss, where Ronin attended when he was in sixth grade, sent a letter home to parents on Thursday saying the campus would provide counseling and support “to students and staff who need assistance dealing with their grief.”

      Ronin died shortly before 3 p.m. Wednesday, according to the Sacramento County coroner’s website. Sgt. Jason Browning, spokesman for Folsom police, declined to share the details, describing it only as “not a suspicious death.”

      Non-suspicious deaths include natural death, accidental death or suicide, Browning said when asked to elaborate. He said Sacramento County coroner’s officials will determine the actual cause.

      Some students posting on the social media site Instagram said Ronin had been bullied and said they saw that as a link to his death.

      School officials responded to those concerns.

      “While we do not know all of the circumstances surrounding Ronin’s passing, we will continue our work to maintain a safe, caring and positive school environment free from bullying and harassment,” Bliss wrote in his letter to parents.

      Daniel Thigpen, spokesman for the Folsom Cordova Unified School District, said instances of bullying against Ronin had been reported in recent years. “I can tell you we looked into each one of them and investigated them fully and took appropriate action for each instance.”

      “We don’t know if there was a connection between bullying and his death,” he said. “But at the end of the day, we want all of our students to be protected from any form of harassment at school.”

      Youths and adults gathered throughout Thursday evening for the vigil in front of the Shimizu home, with some going forward to hug Ronin’s father, Brandon Shimizu.

      Neighbor Danii Bello, 14, said Ronin loved cheerleading and liked to make his own clothes.

      Several of those who came to the vigil did not know Ronin or his family but had learned of the boy’s death through local schools or social media.

      “I have a child at the same school,” said Kazmiera Grundy. “I came to support the family. Folsom is a close community.”

      Luke Grundy, 12, said he wasn’t well-acquainted with Ronin but knew who he was.

      “I wanted to support him,” he said. “I heard he got he got bullied, and I just wanted to be here for him.”

      Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/community/folsom-el-dorado/article4288714.html#storylink=cpy

    • #270964

      violarose
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      We need attention made to this. How very utterly sad. !!!!!! I was a very bullied child because I was a twig.

    • #270965

      violarose
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      Yes, we know about schools with no tolerance, zero bullying. So proud of my daughter in middle school who stepped up and helped out a kid getting bullied. She also was suspended.

    • #270925

      EGL Admin
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      That’s great that she did that. It’s scary for kids to do that because they are afraid of retribution because schools can only do so much to protect them. Parents have to know their kids are doing that. I don’t think kids bully at school and then act like angels are at home.

    • #270972

      AdamsMommy
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      This is heart breaking!!!!!! Does anyone know if Arlene Hein has any bully issues. My son will start school there next year.

    • #270950

      newmom
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      Hein is like any other school in the district-there are great kids and some not so great. The teachers are attentive and involved though. The best thing is for you to talk often with your child about what happens in the classroom and on the playground. In Kinder most of the teachers encourage volunteering as often as once a week. That helps a lot to see how the kids interact and their personalities. I had one child promote from Hein last June (she was there from Kinder-6th), and have a 1st grader there now. What track did you request?

    • #270926

      EGL Admin
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      Had a good meeting today about this subject. Working on some details. Hope to have more information within the next week. I’ll be contacting some of you privately to toss out some ideas and get some feedback. Once we get going and make it public would love to have more people involved and I will be asking for some help.

    • #270973

      AdamsMommy
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      I have to sign my son up in Jan. What is best, new to this type of school system? (advice please)

    • #270951

      newmom
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      It really depends on when you want to be off from school. A track and B track are the largest tracks at Hein and the most difficult to get into. A track and D track are the most similar to traditional school schedules. B and C tracks only have a 3 week break during the summer, but three breaks during the school year. Look at the EGUSD school calendars to see what works for your family. Hein is severely impacted (it’s currently the largest elementary school in the district), and kids are off-loaded to other schools, so I would get there very early. Plus, all the kids currently in transitional Kindergarten have priority because they are considered already registered students. When I registered my son two years ago I was there by 4:15AM, and I was number 28 or something. Since I had an older kid at the school I really wanted them on the same track though (A track). When I registered my daughter many years earlier, I didn’t get to school until 6:15 or something and I was number 12.

    • #270966

      pepsilvr
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      This is sad but a situation I deal with daily. I can tell you from experience that both the bully and the child being bullied need help and many kids are not completely honest about how the bullying is affecting them. I hope we can find better ways to deal with bullies like addressing their issues so they dont take out their frustrations on others. Those being bullied need so much support and validation of their feelings and experience with bullying. As adults we think we know what they experience but it is so different now

    • #270974

      AdamsMommy
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      Reading your reply confuses me lol…..So you say track A & B are largest and most difficult. Why is it so difficult to get my son in one of them?
      B&C have breaks during what months?
      Your recommending me to be there 6am?
      I live right around the corner from the school I would hate to have my son bussed.
      ((thanks for being so helpful and advising me))

    • #270927

      EGL Admin
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      Here is a link to the Elk Grove district calendar
      http://www.egusd.net/calendars/pdfs/14-15_YR_Calendar-FINAL.pdf

      It lists the tracks, modified traditional and traditional schedules.

    • #270959

      tomwaltman
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      Doc, have you connected to EGUSD? They are putting considerable resources into this issue. BSA is the new Board President. She can fill you in on what they are doing. It would be good to look at their framework.

    • #270928

      EGL Admin
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      In a roundabout way. We are going to try and work with them but it would start out separately. I did reach out to someone.
      The schools have their own programs and bureaucracy.

    • #270929

      EGL Admin
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      The Folsom school superintendent wants changes in how they deal with bullying

      http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education/article4435042.html

      the Folsom Cordova Unified School District on Thursday called for immediate changes in how the district responds to reports of bullying in the aftermath of a 12-year-old boy’s suicide last week.

      Superintendent Deborah Bettencourt in recent days launched an internal and a detailed review of all emails, communications and recollections of district personnel who had connections to young Ronin Shimizu, who was enrolled in the district since he was a kindergartner in 2007. Ronin killed himself at his Folsom home on Dec. 3.

      On Thursday, Bettencourt called for changes in how the district responds to reports of bullying and inter-campus transfers when bullying is at issue. The district has tracked students who exhibit bullying behavior, but not the victims of bullying when they move to different schools, she said.

      Ronin started at Russell Ranch Elementary in Folsom. Early in the fifth grade, his parents moved him to a different elementary school. After later studying for a time at Folsom Middle School, he was homeschooled in what family friends said was a vain attempt to outrun taunts, teasing and bullying.

      Bettencourt is expected to go before trustees of the Folsom Cordova district Thursday night to propose a communitywide task force, with police, students, parents, area service groups, teachers and administrators and clergy. Over a two-year period, the task force would meet and regularly offer recommended changes, Bettencourt said.

      The task force would be comprised of four parts, focusing on families, students, school staff and internal administrative procedures.

      Bettencourt said she wants to address problems regardless of whether they meet state definitions of bullying. A uniform complaint procedure is in place at Folsom Cordova Unified for the most formal complaints.

      Ronin’s parents did not use that procedure at Folsom Middle School but contacted administrators with their concerns about his treatment and previously approached another campus to register similar concerns, Bettencourt said. It is not clear whether his parents used a formal complaint process at other campuses. The district is re-examining the specifics in those cases.

      Bettencourt said she plans to read a statement from the Shimizus before she offers her proposal.

      Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education/article4435042.html#storylink=cpy

    • #270944

      joy
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      How about making the bully move to another school instead of the bullied? If you have proof that it is occurring, give one warning to cease all such behavior and then move them the next time they do it. I’d have to think that would cause some behavior change in a fair number of kids and possibly parents. It’s a pipe dream of course, because the schools would never have the guts to do it because of blah, blah, lawsuits, blah, blah, rights.

    • #270948

      LC
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      Schools do sometimes relocate “bullies” and other trouble makers who are persistent offenders. They’re not going to do that for one or two reports though. Keep in mind there are often two sides to the stories. Sometimes people that are “bullied” press a lot of buttons first. I know that’s not a popular position as we’ve been trained to always favor the bullied without thinking of how it started. Sometimes, not always of course, there’s a another story.

    • #270945

      joy
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      I totally understand that. Some kids absolutely contribute to it on purpose or not. But annoying someone isn’t the same as making their life a living hell at school.

    • #270930

      EGL Admin
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      If it were me and it was my kid I would confront the parents of the bully to make sure they are aware of it, which I assume they would be, to just speak with parent to parent. Even if they were asses at least you would know what you’re up against.

    • #270952

      newmom
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      I think schools are reluctant to react to many things-bullying, violence, etc-because having the numbers reported can make it look like they have a troubled population, so instead, they try other methods of handling the problems that don’t result in official reports. If they have to suspend or expel a bully, it looks bad on their reports. If they wait it out and the bullied kid’s parents move him/her, it doesn’t show up on their disciplinary reports.

    • #270968

      ActionEmotion
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      I usually don’t like getting into discussions tied to the death of a child, especially suicide because my position can be twisted to sound as if I have no sympathy for the child. The opposite is true. I was bullied and suffered greatly at the hands of bullies as a kid. That being said, onto my take on this.

      You can not solve the bullying problem with laws, school policy or education. It can only be solved by a change of ideology. It begins with the parents. Parents must take a more active role in the lives of their children regardless of the perceived negative repercussions associated with parental involvement in bullying matters. Kids hate it when parents get involved because all they see coming from it is more harassment from students and even teachers who mercilessly when “Mommy and Daddy” get involved.

      Second, we need to stop a different policy from being enforced and that is zero tolerance. Zero tolerance is what creates bullies and victims of bullying. If a bullied student has no recourse other than telling teachers or administrators when they have been bullied, nothing will change. Every kid that “snitches” on a bully multiplies his circumstance with more bullying and mockery from the bullies and a bad reputation from others who label him a snitch. Kids must be permitted to handle their problems if they choose to by fighting back. Not it isn’t optimal but it is the natural solution to bullying. Kick a bully’s ass and he’s no longer a bully.

      Third, we need to stop treating school kids like they were made of fine china from the Ming Dynasty. By restricting physical activity in boys and punishing them for being aggressive we create a bigger problem by forcing them to bottle up their aggression having it released in negative situations. Kids, especially boys need to let off steam and learn how to find their way in the world., This comes with calm, mature and level headed coaches and mentors helping them use those energies in more healthy and satisfying ways.

      The school system is filled with backward messaging and impossible restrictions which lead to negative circumstances that can not be controlled by political correctness and soft headed zero tolerance policies.

    • #270931

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      #1, that’s not always how it happens when parents or adults get involved. It can be nipped.
      My youngest son had an awful teacher last year who was kind of a bully. She taught by fear. She made a mistake on correcting his paper and he was not going to say anything. I said you have to. So I wrote a note on the paper and he gave it to her and she got mad at him because she said he should have something. No s&@t but he was scared. So he comes home and he was mad at me because I made him tell her. So he would have rather taken a lesser grade than speak up because she was mean. So I went to school and talked to her about it. I told what happened and she tried to back track. I let her have it and said a student should never be afraid of a teacher and asking a question. After that we never had a problem with her. She actually bent over backwards to be nicer.

      #2, in a perfect world yes, kick the bully’s ass. Works in the movies though. That rarely happens though. I don’t think the 12 year old Folsom boy was going to do that. I think the bully needs to be punished. I think it starts at home. The bully’s parents need to take a tough stand. Also other kids need to stand up to the bully too. In middle school I had a couple of minor experiences and both times another bigger kid saw it and ended it. If more kids did that then there would be less problems with this.

      #3, how is physical activity being restricted? I think kids participate in more sports now than ever. That’s no reason to be a bully though. It’s not acceptable.

      In my opinion your solutions would only lead to more bullying. Asking the victim to keep quiet in any crime because of fear of repercussions is archaic, in my opinion. I understand why kids would think that. That’s why we need to change that culture. If I were the parents of the Folsom boy I would have went to each of the bully’s parents and addressed it with them. Maybe they didn’t know. Maybe they did. At some point some adult needed to tell those kids that was wrong and the pain they caused. Hopefully they have learned their lesson now that they are partially responsible for the tragedy.

      This may sound bad but I probably would have discouraged my son from cheerleading to avoid this. I told my son 2 years ago that he needed to expand his circle of friends. That was selfish of me, but I wanted to avoid this type of thing. He’s not an athlete at all but he has friends who are. They have a good circle of kids.

    • #270960

      tomwaltman
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      Doc, I agree almost completely, but one of the things I think gets left out of all of these conversations is the fact that often it is not just one bully, but a group of kids who team up to isolate and bully other kids. Talking to the parents would require a meeting hall.

      I think we are on the right track in general in shining a bright light on the whole concept of bullying, and letting kids know that it is never acceptable. The more we call kids out for doing it, the more the stigma changes towards the bully, rather than the kid getting bullied. I love the idea of requiring a kids with a track record of bullying to move schools. THAT would make a difference. Parents could never claim to not know that their little baby was a monster.

    • #270932

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      I agree it’s usually a group. Rarely just one kid doing it. The more we talk about it and the repercussions the more it will be not acceptable. Kids need to be empowered. A & E’s suggestions are almost more about hiding it and placing the responsibility on the child being bullied to keep quiet. That won’t help. Schools should be a safe area.

    • #270933

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      We hope to have some news on what we would like to do by early next week. It will just be a start and hopefully we can get others involved. I have a contact from the school district.

    • #270953

      newmom
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      I disagree that letting kids beat the crap out of each other will end the problem. Some kids can not defend themselves against someone bullying them. The 12 year old buy who just killed himself was not a physically large kid. No way he could have beat the crap out of another kid, nor should he have to. Not all kids want to fight, not all kids know how to fight-and again-they should not have to. My little brother was physically small-short and skin and bones-until his senior year of high school. He had no idea how to fight, and would have gotten hurt if he did try. He didn’t grow until he suddenly sprouted up his senior year to over 6 feet tall-but since I was a year older than him and strong and not afraid, I defended for a long time. The other kids knew to leave him alone only because of me. School is supposed to be a safe place. It is up to the schools to create and keep it a safe environment. History has shown us though that many times they are slow or ineffective to handle problems. They don’t want to suspend kids and getting kids kicked out of school is nearly impossible. So, the problem kids stick around.

    • #270942

      adiffer
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      @Action>Emotion 100890 wrote:

      You can not solve the bullying problem with laws, school policy or education. It can only be solved by a change of ideology. It begins with the parents. [/quote]

      True enough, but this isn’t saying anything most of us don’t already admit. There are a few who think they can solve this with law or through the schools, but I suspect most of us who are parents don’t. The academic theorizing sounds hollow or silly once you have a kid of your own. Believing this isn’t much of an issue, I suspect. The hard part is turning this belief into actionable events.

      Quote:
      Second, we need to stop a different policy from being enforced and that is zero tolerance. Zero tolerance is what creates bullies and victims of bullying. Kick a bully’s ass and he’s no longer a bully.

      I’m inclined to agree, but only in a situation where the snitching cannot result in a useful (measurable) response that stops the bullies from repeating. If snitching is not effective, there is little point in doing it no matter what the school policy says.

      Quote:
      Third, we need to stop treating school kids like they were made of fine china from the Ming Dynasty. By restricting physical activity in boys and punishing them for being aggressive we create a bigger problem by forcing them to bottle up their aggression having it released in negative situations. Kids, especially boys need to let off steam and learn how to find their way in the world., This comes with calm, mature and level headed coaches and mentors helping them use those energies in more healthy and satisfying ways.

      Boys that age are hormonal time bombs? Heh. Yah. You have a point here, but I think most of us know it. Anyone with a boy that age certainly should. They get aggressive with everyone, including their parents, as they establish their turf. The trick is to figure out ways to help them survive this without too much injury. I doubt there are enough coaches to do this, though. Isn’t this the traditional role of the father or the master of an apprentice?

      Quote:
      The school system is filled with backward messaging and impossible restrictions which lead to negative circumstances that can not be controlled by political correctness and soft headed zero tolerance policies.

      I’m inclined to agree, but when I do I recognize that I’m dissing the Education community and I’m not trained in their knowledge when it comes to kids. I strongly suspect they are well outside the bounds of what can be known with any certainty when it comes to kids during puberty, but it’s anecdotal evidence against their studies.

      When it comes to zero tolerance, though, I’m not that disturbed. I’ve learned to think of it as a cooling off period when three day suspensions are given. That can be useful and it forces parents to get more involved if they have to take off time from work.

    • #270943

      adiffer
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      @newmom 100897 wrote:

      School is supposed to be a safe place. It is up to the schools to create and keep it a safe environment.

      This is the error so many of us make. The schools can’t be a safe place because no place is safe. The best we can reasonably hope for is that they are relatively safe. If our expectations are too high, we set the schools up to fail.

      I’m not suggesting we give up, though. It’s just that I think it is important to be precise on our expectations for school safety. This is the same point I make when I argue it isn’t the job of the police to protect us. The job they DO perform results in a relative improvement of our safety, so it appears they are protecting us. The schools aren’t supposed to be safe, but what they actually DO improves our children’s safety.

    • #270934

      EGL Admin
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      I think you’re kind of nitpicking Al. We know that no place is 100% safe. The point is schools need to a little better job. They can’t be everywhere and see everything of course. But when they are aware of a situation such as bullying they need to do a better job.

    • #270935

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      In a perfect world there would be no zero tolerance because they could look at things on a case by case basis. I think the legal system has made that difficult. So they have to eliminate gray area to avoid lawsuits.

    • #270976

      Tracinae
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      Only 12….. Breaks my heart. That a child would rather die than wait for help. :crying2:
      Why didn’t anyone notice the pain he was feeling?

    • #270954

      newmom
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      @adiffer 100903 wrote:

      This is the error so many of us make. The schools can’t be a safe place because no place is safe. The best we can reasonably hope for is that they are relatively safe. If our expectations are too high, we set the schools up to fail.

      I’m not suggesting we give up, though. It’s just that I think it is important to be precise on our expectations for school safety. This is the same point I make when I argue it isn’t the job of the police to protect us. The job they DO perform results in a relative improvement of our safety, so it appears they are protecting us. The schools aren’t supposed to be safe, but what they actually DO improves our children’s safety.

      Al, I’m referring to the schools knowing that a kid is bullying another, and actually beating other kids up, and the schools still not suspending or expelling kids. Kids have to go to school, it’s the law, but allowing a kid who is a threat to other kids to continue at school with little repercussions for their actions allows the problems to continue and puts kids at risk.
      I know of a girl who was recently physically assaulted at a local high school during class time. (And this is a high school that people wanted their kids at when boundary lines were being redrawn, citing the lower number of suspensions as an indication of a better behaved student body.) Immediately after the assault, the school did not notify her parents or get medical attention for the girl. The girl called her parents from her own cell phone, while being threatened by the school. Her parents arrived at school and called for an ambulance because the girl had a massive head wound and required stitches. The school had been aware the girl who assaulted the other was physically threatening the other but did nothing, and after the assault the girl didn’t even get suspended. Why? The school said they “don’t like to suspend kids.” WTF? She attacked another student on campus-how could they not suspend her? The parents of the girl who was assaulted had to go to court and get a restraining order against the other girl, and still the school didn’t want to remove the offender from the same classes as the girl who was assaulted. The school even went to far as to suggest that the girl who was attacked change her classes and drop out of clubs and activities that the offender was in. Why should she have to quit things she likes and enjoys because another student attacked her? The school should have at the very least suspended the other girl, I would even say expelled her. If suspension was the punishment, she should not have been allowed to be involved in clubs or activities the other student actively participated in. Yes, it is called punishment. The schools don’t do it anymore-all to protect their numbers. “Zero tolerance policy” is applied on a case by case basis and at the discretion of each school.
      So yes, the school did nothing to prevent this attack, or to prevent future attacks on this student or others. They know of problems and they don’t react.

    • #270936

      EGL Admin
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      It will be interesting to see what Elk Grove’s policy is. I got the contact number of the person who is involved with this at the district. I think it’s school by school. I think high school is worse. You have 2500+ kids at some schools.

    • #270946

      joy
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      When we all did the rounds and round about the quality of local middle and high schools, this was one of the most frustrating parts of it for me. Outright manipulation of things like discipline rates, GPA’s, STAR test results, etc, happens all over the place. Numbers and “policies” don’t mean jack when it comes right down to it, especially if the school’s policy is to present a good picture to the public no matter what. When that happens if there are not parents willing to go all out to expose it, it just keeps happening. Sickening.

    • #270947

      lakesidebull
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      Sad that kids could feel so helpless and hopeless, and interesting comments here from several perspectives. I can’t imagine growing up with the added pressure of social media and your popularity being defined by the number of virtual friends you have on those sites. Being a kid was hard enough back in the analog days, it must be really tough now.

      In reading these threads, the outrage is on children who are bullies but too much about their parents. The apple typically doesn’t fall far from the tree. One kid in my group in Jr. High was a bully, mostly to the weaker underclass kids. He had a fat, drunk slob of a father who sat around in his nasty boxers and dirty wife-beater shirt watching football. To him, fighting was the measurement of how much of a man his boys were. He was always punching on his kids, so I would imagine that’s why they took on that same behavior to others weaker than them. But if a bullied kid’s parents decided to talk to this bully’s parent, they could have talked to Fred Flintstone until they were blue in the face and nothing would have ever changed with the bully’s behavior. The fat slob father would have probably would have challenged the other kid’s father to a fight and probably would have given his kid a trophy for winning a fight.

      On the subject of bullies but slightly off topic, I’ve got to say that they don’t just come pint sized. There are people on this site and the other site who totally fit the description of a bully. The “don’t post if you don’t have a thick skin” comment can only be made by a bully. For example, if Whimfarm on the other site was a teenage girl, she might have killed herself from the awful comments and treatment she received from some people. But I guess it’s okay to be a bully when you’re an adult.

      Bottom line of school bullying in my experience; Kids typically learn from and model the behavior they observe from their own parents. You can’t fix the kid if the parent is the root of the problem.

    • #270937

      EGL Admin
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      But you can fix a kid. It’s not hopeless. Not all kids from crappy parents grow to be bad. Granted it is harder. I don’t think all parents fall into the Fred Flintstone category. I think most are oblivious or think it’s just kids being kids. I know parents in both categories. I’ve coached soccer for 6 years and I haven’t had any real bullies but kids who were borderline. The parents were completely oblivious. Biggest issue was kids getting mad at other kids for making mistakes. I nipped that in the bud pretty quickly. Kids need to know what’s unacceptable.

    • #270949

      LC
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      @lakesidebull 100987 wrote:

      There are people on this site and the other site who totally fit the description of a bully. The “don’t post if you don’t have a thick skin” comment can only be made by a bully. For example, if Whimfarm on the other site was a teenage girl, she might have killed herself from the awful comments and treatment she received from some people.

      And a classic, textbook example of someone pushing buttons to get a reaction, and she did. Actually I think she stood up to most of it OK, but to say she didn’t seed and de facto encourage the response is misdirected.

    • #270938

      EGL Admin
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      I would agree with that assessment. She got a lot of crap but she gave a lot and often instigated it.

    • #270969

      ActionEmotion
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      @EGL Admin 100893 wrote:

      #3, how is physical activity being restricted?

      Much of the gym class activities have been disallowed and in place of kids burning off steam they have book work to do in gym class and gym homework, not a good change. Schools have banned tag, balls of any kind (in NY) and other physical activities during the day. I’m not talking about after school sports in high school which come with a price and a series of permission slips and waivers.

      @EGL Admin 100893 wrote:

      In my opinion your solutions would only lead to more bullying. Asking the victim to keep quiet in any crime because of fear of repercussions is archaic, in my opinion.

      Where did you get that idea? Keeping quiet? Hell no, just the opposite. I have often thought about what happened in my child hood. I was bullied and beaten up more times than I could count. Then I finally got the message that the teachers and the parents weren’t going to do anything so I started fighting back. The bullying stopped.

    • #270939

      EGL Admin
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      Kids do much more cardio in PE than my generation did. We never ran. My 7th grader runs every Monday, 3/4 to over a mile.

      My perception was you were saying adults shouldn’t get involved. I don’t think I was alone.

    • #270955

      newmom
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      My daughter is on a block schedule in middle school but she ran a timed and graded mile every week. They also did a lot of other running during the week like trying different track events like hurdles, relay, etc.

    • #270940

      EGL Admin
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      Our son does some written work but not that much. They do exercises every day. I think in some respects kids are more active, but for some there is too much time playing video games. Our kids are doing karate 2-3 times a week. So that’s 45 minutes of doing something. We just finished soccer and that was two 1.5 hour practices a week for 3 months and the games every Saturday for 10 weeks.

      I don’t think that really has anything to do with bullies though. They have been around forever. It wa just that no one ever did anything about it and a lot of kids suffered through it and survived. I don’t know why kids now sometimes choose suicide. I think it’s enough of a problem that we need to do something about it.

    • #270956

      newmom
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      The only homework my daughter had for PE was the end of the term when she had to do a handout about the food pyramids, calories taken in, etc. Her next PE term starts next week though.

    • #270970

      ActionEmotion
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      @EGL Admin 101023 wrote:

      My perception was you were saying adults shouldn’t get involved. I don’t think I was alone.

      NO. If that’s what people got from it then I wasn’t clear. The truth is this: Kids try to keep their parents out of it out of fear from ridicule from other kids and even teachers for involving parents in a battle that (it is perceived by many) that kids should handle alone. Parents need to take charge and tell their kids that they have their back. The problem persists however that when parents DO get involved that the bullied kid ends up facing even more bullying. I have witnessed it with teachers from EGUSD and my kids. One teacher actually said (after being rude and swearing in class) “Are you going to go run and tell mommy now?” That crap has to end.

      Parents need to work with teachers to make sure that they are going to receive support from the school by keeping an eye out for the bully, making sure that the bully isn’t able to act out on school grounds and by letting the bullied kid know that they are aware of the problem.

      The way it is now is that school takes no sides and punishes all involved. My son was sent to detention for being tripped and falling in class. How is that helping to stop bullying? Zero tolerance means teachers don’t have to think or take risks of pointing the finger of blame. Ignore the problem and punish everyone is the standard.

      As for kids fighting back, you end up building a reputation for someone who isn’t going to roll over and take it. Bullies are cowards and once you give a coward a challenge they back off.

    • #270971

      ActionEmotion
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      @newmom 101027 wrote:

      My daughter is on a block schedule in middle school but she ran a timed and graded mile every week. They also did a lot of other running during the week like trying different track events like hurdles, relay, etc.

      Have you ever watched these runs. Lots of kids walking and talking, most barely jogging, some running. This doesn’t help kids, especially boys burn off steam. Its boring and feels punitive. They need games, not timed runs. They need a break from school to play flag football, softball, basketball or some other sport.

    • #270941

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      @Action>Emotion 101074 wrote:

      NO. If that’s what people got from it then I wasn’t clear. The truth is this: Kids try to keep their parents out of it out of fear from ridicule from other kids and even teachers for involving parents in a battle that (it is perceived by many) that kids should handle alone. Parents need to take charge and tell their kids that they have their back. The problem persists however that when parents DO get involved that the bullied kid ends up facing even more bullying. I have witnessed it with teachers from EGUSD and my kids. One teacher actually said (after being rude and swearing in class) “Are you going to go run and tell mommy now?” That crap has to end.

      Parents need to work with teachers to make sure that they are going to receive support from the school by keeping an eye out for the bully, making sure that the bully isn’t able to act out on school grounds and by letting the bullied kid know that they are aware of the problem.

      The way it is now is that school takes no sides and punishes all involved. My son was sent to detention for being tripped and falling in class. How is that helping to stop bullying? Zero tolerance means teachers don’t have to think or take risks of pointing the finger of blame. Ignore the problem and punish everyone is the standard.

      As for kids fighting back, you end up building a reputation for someone who isn’t going to roll over and take it. Bullies are cowards and once you give a coward a challenge they back off.

      A kid has to be physically able to fight back though. I am all for kicking a bully’s ass. I agree that’s the best way to end it. That’s just not always possible. I think maybe other kids could also step in and help too.

    • #270957

      newmom
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      @Action>Emotion 101075 wrote:

      Have you ever watched these runs. Lots of kids walking and talking, most barely jogging, some running. This doesn’t help kids, especially boys burn off steam. Its boring and feels punitive. They need games, not timed runs. They need a break from school to play flag football, softball, basketball or some other sport.

      My daughter’s have all been timed and graded, so if you walk or even go slowly you are getting a low grade for the day. Another run they have to keep a minimum speed and once they can’t keep out they are out and graded accordingly. They do also play other games depending on the unit. And as for baseball or softball burning off steam…all you do in either of those sports is stand around and wait. No steam burning there. Basketball yes-and they will play that too. They have different units they follow. First term was olympic track events.

    • #270961

      tomwaltman
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      newmom, you need to come watch our version of softball. Girls fastpitch is very little standing around, and you can ask the girls that play on my teams, at least one girl will barf in the first two practices. I run a fast-paced program. 😉

    • #270975

      Leok20
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      Very sad every time this story is brought up.

    • #270962

      tomwaltman
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      One of the things I thing may help is to put pressure on the various sports leagues to participate in the Positive Coaching Alliance trainings. Many bullies are created in sports where coaches pick on the weaker kids because they are pissed off that they have to take these kids on their teams. I have had at least one girl on my last two teams that was either smaller/younger or otherwise not at the same physical level as the other girls. My teams are competitive teams, and the girls want to win. They work hard and they play to win. One of the things I teach them, though, is that the team always comes first, and they have to play as a team to win. They have to play for each other, and when someone makes an error or strikes out, they pick them up and move forward. Everyone will make an error at some point, and everyone will strike out at least once. That is just part of the game. Play as a team, and those things won’t kill you.

      Well, when you have these girls who aren’t at the same level, for whatever reason, It can be tough, as the larger, more physically talented and competitive girls can be a handful. What I tell the less gifted girls is that, if they give it their all, and try at every practice, and on every play, they will always get playing time and they will always be welcome on my teams. I have never had one quit on me, and most of those girls end up being the hardest workers and the best teammates. They are the girls I use as an example of how to play the game. When they are successful, the entire team goes crazy. These girls learn a great lesson about friendship and teamwork, and they learn that being less physically gifted, or being outright physically challenged does not mean the girls don’t have heart and that they can’t be friends. At the end of the day, that is why I coach. I love winning, but I love sending these kids off as better people that other coaches would die to have on their teams.

    • #270967

      kindrlindr
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      Backing up a bit on this thread……my son would have never kicked his bully’s butt. I kind of wish he had, but its not the kind of kid he is.

    • #270958

      newmom
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      @tomwaltman 101088 wrote:

      newmom, you need to come watch our version of softball. Girls fastpitch is very little standing around, and you can ask the girls that play on my teams, at least one girl will barf in the first two practices. I run a fast-paced program. 😉

      That’s not what they do in PE though.

    • #270963

      tomwaltman
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      I know newmom. Just yankin’ your chain a bit. 😉

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