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ALL local elementary schools starting late state or early out days in 2015-2016

This topic contains 31 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Bainc 4 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #176067

    newmom
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    So we received notification from our elementary school that, start next school year, all EGUSD will be having either a late start day (similar to what local middle schools and high schools do) or an early out day every week. Our school chose to do an early out day each Wednesday, with school ending at 1:45 that day. To make up for the lost instructional minutes, the school day is being extended by 5 minutes Mon, Tues, Thurs, and Fri, and 5 minutes is being cut from their morning recess every day. Apparently this was a negotiated agreement with the union. The purpose of this is to allow teachers time to “have common planning time, plan lessons, develop assessment tools, and analyze data”. Common Core is being pointed to as a cause for this.

    I have very mixed feelings about this. One, cutting recess time is stupid. For some classes, that’s all the time they get outside the classroom. I’ve said before that my son’s class has had PE one time the entire year, and that was when a student vomited in class and it needed to be cleaned up. Recess time is the ONLY time his class gets that allows them to NOT be sitting in a seat all day. Bye-bye recess. Currently, recess is 20 minutes, so it will be cut to 15 minutes. Just enough time for a kid to eat a snack and use the bathroom (they lose recess if they have to use the bathroom during class time, so they have to go during recess). Studies show that kids are better able to pay attention and learn in class after they have had some physical activity, so recess is an important break from being in the classroom that actually helps students and teachers. For a super active, easily bored, very advanced kid like my son, losing recess is going to create a host of problems.
    Second, this is a hardship for many parents. What are working parents supposed to tell their employers? I am fortunate to be a stay-at-home mom, so it isn’t an issue for me, but I can see how this will be a major problem for many parents. I don’t know how the parents of kids who attend a school that chose late start instead of early out are supposed to get to work. If I did work outside the house, I couldn’t leave my 7 year old son home alone and have him get to school on his own. I wouldn’t get to work until around 9:15 if I worked downtown and school wasn’t starting until 8:45 one day. How can the union and the EGUSD think this is workable for families?
    I respect good teachers and always volunteer, am active in my kids’ education, always there to help out and support the classrooms and schools my kids attend. No one who knows me could say I don’t support teachers. However, this new plan really bothers me. Why can’t the teachers set time aside after the regular school day for this? Before I had children, when I worked outside the house, we had a 7AM meeting or a 5PM meeting once a week at my job-so we were done with it before the regular work day started or we didn’t cut the work day off to start a meeting. I was a salaried employee, so I didn’t receive any overtime for this-but it was expected and a part of the job and everyone was expected to participate in it. If this time is so important to teachers, why can’t they schedule it at a time that doesn’t force a change in the school schedule and inconvenience every single student and family at the school?

  • #282070

    violarose
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    They dont seem to care how it impacts the children. It’s all about teachers and not having them to do outside work. Oh mY.

  • #282056

    doclaguna
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    Who knows more about education, the teacher’s union or the public? 😉

  • #282059

    LC
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    Common Core is the main reason for this, and EGUSD have been the laggards. Most other districts have already implemented similar schedules. One of the concepts of CC is integration between subjects. The idea is to provide time for teacher collaboration. The way EGUSD has set up the early out is definitely a hardship on some parents. Other districts have compressed a few minutes of early start to provide a full day for teacher meetings, and some other variants–i don’t know all the details but I don’t think the change is as much union-based as blocking out time for the teachers to caucus about curriculum coordination. Asking the teachers to do this on their own time is like asking Obama to cut taxes for the wealthy.

  • #282075

    AdamsMommy
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    This is horrible…

  • #282057

    doclaguna
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    It’s a weird world. We have 2 working parent households and the expectation is kids can be dropped off and picked up at all odd hours. I am really lucky to have grandparent taxis at the ready.

  • #282060

    LC
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    @doclaguna 112179 wrote:

    It’s a weird world. We have 2 working parent households and the expectation is kids can be dropped off and picked up at all odd hours. I am really lucky to have grandparent taxis at the ready.

    It’s a real problem for many, especially if both parents do shift work where they can’t just pick up and leave, and for the lower income people, many of whom don’t work, it’s a deal killer because many can’t get their kids to school on a regular schedule, largely because they oversleep, let alone odd hours. In our case my wife didn’t have the luxury of doing this, so I started working at home and was responsible for taking and picking her up from school. Came to a point where i was in the field so much I couldn’t always pick her up, so we had a private bus do it, which are readily available in most areas. It can be done, especially when they are old enough to let themselves in the house safely. Before that time, it can be a real problem.

  • #282048

    EGL Admin
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    Our school has been doing this the past two years. We used to get out at 2:10 every day. Now they get out at 2:20 and on Thursday they get out at 1:30. The buses though don’t take them home until 2:20
    So the kids hang out in the cafeteria I think.

  • #282061

    newmom
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    Our school day has typically been 8-2:30, with the track change days (once a month) being 8-12:30. Plus two “teacher in service” days a year that are minimum days. So this early out once a week on Wednesday is yet another day that working parents have to figure things out for their kids.
    I’m really bothered by cutting recess time too. The kids, especially the younger kids, really need it.

  • #282049

    EGL Admin
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    Sounds like the issue is more with your school specifically than the district itself. Our school does PE regularly. They get lunch recess for at least 30 minutes. They also get two other recesses during the day too.

    When we moved when our son was 6 months old, we wanted our kids to go to a traditional school with a long history and established teachers. We didn’t want year round.

    For working parents, is 2:30 going to be that much different than 1:30? I doubt very many kid off work by 2 pm or whatever to get their kids at 2:30. They probably use CDI or have after school care of some kind.

  • #282062

    newmom
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    The PE issue is specifically teacher to teacher. Each one is different. Some do a lot, some do little. Morning recess is for all kids 1-6. No afternoon recess for 4, 5, or 6 grade because they eat lunch so late in the day.
    A lot of parents who work for the state are able to come in at 6:00 and leave to pick kids up at 2:30.

  • #282050

    EGL Admin
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    I’m sure there are some that do that but I wonder how many? We’ve had people pick up our kids before and we have picked up other kids too from school when necessary. We did a carpool for pickup for a couple of years. I know it’s a pain but there are options. We’ve been doing the Thursday early out for I think 3 years counting this year.

  • #282058

    doclaguna
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    @EGL Admin 112200 wrote:

    Sounds like the issue is more with your school specifically than the district itself. Our school does PE regularly. They get lunch recess for at least 30 minutes. They also get two other recesses during the day too.

    When we moved when our son was 6 months old, we wanted our kids to go to a traditional school with a long history and established teachers. We didn’t want year round.

    For working parents, is 2:30 going to be that much different than 1:30? I doubt very many kid off work by 2 pm or whatever to get their kids at 2:30. They probably use CDI or have after school care of some kind.

    Unless you’ve accounted for this 2:30 pick up time in your job schedule, and now suddenly once a week it’s now 1:30…

  • #282063

    newmom
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    @EGL Admin 112205 wrote:

    I’m sure there are some that do that but I wonder how many? We’ve had people pick up our kids before and we have picked up other kids too from school when necessary. We did a carpool for pickup for a couple of years. I know it’s a pain but there are options. We’ve been doing the Thursday early out for I think 3 years counting this year.

    There are always options. I question the need to disrupt the school and employment schedules of all the parents for this. Boy if I did work outside the house I’d be screwed. Middle school doesn’t start until 9:10 on Wednesdays and now elementary schol get out at 1:30. Might as well not bother going into work that day.

  • #282074

    Anonymous
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    Many parents commute long distances to work. Some parents work Graveyard, swing shifts, etc… Some want to go out and enjoy Happy Hour with friends after work. I say schools are lazy. School should be 7 days a week from 6:30am to 6:30am. DAMMIT!! I have a life and the schools need to work around MY schedule.

    In all seriousness, I do believe schools shouldn’t purposely make the lives of their parents impossible, but not everyone is going to be happy with the schedules and the parents need to adjust and figure things out.

    But I am white and privileged, what do I know… :stir:

  • #282072

    Scarlet
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    My parents won’t have to worry too much with the scheduling changes, that’s my responsibility 🙂 I remember when the schools use to have early/late readers, I was at the school five times a day. I was there twice in the am, again for kindergarten pick-up and twice in the afternoon. I don’t know why I didn’t request my own classroom. I guess I do have my own classroom, the cafeteria, I stay there with my little ones when I have one going to speech therapy before they are in enrolled in school.

  • #282071

    violarose
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    Recess is such an important time to get all of your wiggles out for little ones, and big people too. 🙁 that time is now getting cut into.

  • #282064

    newmom
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    Yep, and you know my son. He has a lot of wiggles to get out. That’s another reason we walk to and from school rather than drive. It really helps get some wiggles out before school starts in the morning, or in the afternoon after sitting all day. That and 7 hours a week of gymnastics. But he still has TONS of energy.

  • #282078

    Bainc
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    @EGL Admin 112200 wrote:

    For working parents, is 2:30 going to be that much different than 1:30? I doubt very many kid off work by 2 pm or whatever to get their kids at 2:30. They probably use CDI or have after school care of some kind.

    ^^^This. It’s already inconvenient to pick up kids at 2:30 but I agree the schools shouldn’t be making it difficult on purpose. This is just another reason why we decided to sacrifice a lot of luxuries to have my wife be a SAHM. Next year we’ll have two in grade school, one in kinder, and two at home. My wife will be at school at 8:00, 11:30, and again at 2:30. Our parents are young enough that they’re still working full time themselves so we can’t lean on them. Paying for daycare would equal a net loss by having my wife work. The math doesn’t add up.

  • #282065

    newmom
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    That was me last year. On minimum days, it was 8, 11:30, and hang around reading and taking A/R tests until 12:30.

  • #282051

    EGL Admin
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    I hated having one in Kinder and one in a higher grade. It would be 8 , 11:20 and then 2:10. It’s nice having them get out at 2:20 and 3 pm now. only 7 more days of school for us on traditional. Can’t wait. Going to be a fun summer.

  • #282066

    newmom
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    We are 2:30 and 2:47 now, but my daughter walks herself to and from school since I’m getting my son. Her walk is really short, and days when he’s taken several A/R tests and we don’t leave until 2:45, she beats us home. It’s very convenient living walking distance to our schools.

  • #282073

    ErinO
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    I think this is ridiculous. Less classroom time for our children isn’t the answer to better education. One hour less of instruction per week adds up to about six DAYS less of instruction over the course of the school year. They already get two weeks off in December for winter break, a whole week at Thanksgiving, a week at spring break, and every holiday you can think of. The number of instruction days seems to be shrinking every year.

  • #282052

    EGL Admin
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    @erino 112864 wrote:

    I think this is ridiculous. Less classroom time for our children isn’t the answer to better education. One hour less of instruction per week adds up to about six DAYS less of instruction over the course of the school year. They already get two weeks off in December for winter break, a whole week at Thanksgiving, a week at spring break, and every holiday you can think of. The number of instruction days seems to be shrinking every year.

    I think total instruction time is the same. They are extending the other days. Our school has been doing this a couple of years. They extended the school day by 10 minutes. On Thursday we get out 40 minutes earlier so the other days they increased by 10 minutes. They didn’t cut any recess time for us.

    Albiani middle school has late start Thursday’s which is kind of a pain.

  • #282067

    newmom
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    The number of instructional hours isn’t changing. Parents are being told that as if we should be grateful rather than there being laws about the number of hours kids have to be in school.
    Our school tried to implement something similar to this years ago, but without adding to the school day or cutting recess. They eventually realized the school wouldn’t meet the legally required number of hours the kids needed to be in school so they scrapped the plan. If they weren’t cutting recess I wouldn’t be as opposed to it, although it is a real hardship on working parents. I also think these younger kids benefit from the consistency of being in school with a regular schedule.
    Toby and FHS have late start Wednesdays, and then HEMS has late start Monday (at least someone told me they do it Monday). If all the schools did it the same day it might be easier on parents too. I don’t know if EPMS and COHS have late start days, but I believe all the middle and high schools have them.
    A lot of parents seem to be upset about this. I think the teachers’ union is underestimating the amount of support they have from parents and the community and that this is creating even more negative feelings about teachers.

  • #282053

    EGL Admin
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    So this extra hour a week is so the teachers can work together and plan things? I wonder if they actually do that?

  • #282068

    newmom
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    We were told it is so they can meet together and/or plan tests and assessments for students to better meet student needs and determine if Common Core is working. I’m not sure how that is different than what they were supposed to be doing all these years. Plus, most of the tests the students take in elementary school come from the text book manufacturers. I don’t see that changing under Common Core, and they aren’t going to scrap Common Core and they can’t change the text book, so I’m not seeing the benefits to students.

  • #282076

    gearshark23
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    Please tell me what state agency allows you to come in at 6 and leave at 2:30..

    Not very many. But I would love for you to ask the parents, so I can go apply over there and work 6-230 instead of 730-4..

    When I was in school we had Morning Recess afternoon Recess lunch and “PE”

  • #282054

    EGL Admin
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    I think some jobs might be that flexible, but I would guess it is very few that allow you to work 6 am to 2:30. The number of those parents who are in the Elk Grove schools would be pretty small and even then, you aren’t getting home in time to pick up your kid at 2:30 or even 2:45.

  • #282079

    Bainc
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    Very, very few work 6-2:30 and like Doc said you can’t make it to school by 2:35.

  • #282077

    gearshark23
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    That’s what I was saying very very few work that schedule, it’s not the “normal work core hours” I know FTB allows employees to come in at 5:00 am.

    I just want to get off at 2:30 so I have the rest of the day left.

    But if you take E-tran your not getting to EG till around 345-4ish..

    I made it from the Q street on ramp to Franklin and EG Blvd a couple years ago in 9 minutes… I swear I wasn’t speeding…

  • #282069

    newmom
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    I know FTB and Lotto do.

  • #282055

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    @gearshark23 112896 wrote:

    I just want to get off at 2:30 so I have the rest of the day left.

    When I worked at Apple here in Elk Grove for a year, I worked 6 am to 2:30. That was perfect. I am a morning person anyway so it worked out great. I could leave my house in East EG by 5:45 and be there in time. I would be home by 2:50. Had the rest of the day to do whatever.

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