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Duggars dating ritual

This topic contains 38 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  sisterwoman 4 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #174731

    EGL Admin
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    I don’t know much about the family other than they have 19 kids I guess. I was reading an article about the dating ritual for their 2 daughters.

    • Communication is monitored by parents and texts are open for all to see
    • Chaperones accompany the the couple everywhere.
    • Only side hugs are allowed pre-engagement
    • Hand holding post engagement
    • Kisses only on the wedding day

    I would not want my sons to date anyone like that. That’s great that they are good girls, but that is over the top. I wouldn’t want my kids getting married before they were 25 anyway and wouldn’t want them marrying the first person they had feelings for. You have to go through the process and experience the ups and downs of a relationship first. I wouldn’t advise not having sex before marriage. If it’s your religion and that’s what you feel and think is best, then that’s up to the parties involved, but I wouldn’t recommend that for couples.

  • #265883

    newmom
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    Although it’s not how I would want my kids to date or experience their teen and pre-married lives, these parents take care of their kids on their own (without financial assistance from the state or fed gov) and the kids stay out of trouble, so it’s not my business what rules they have in place for their kids. If their kids don’t like the rules, they can talk with their parents about changing them.

  • #265880

    LC
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    @newmom 94901 wrote:

    Although it’s not how I would want my kids to date or experience their teen and pre-married lives, these parents take care of their kids on their own (without financial assistance from the state or fed gov) and the kids stay out of trouble, so it’s not my business what rules they have in place for their kids. If their kids don’t like the rules, they can talk with their parents about changing them.

    Spot on, Newmom.

  • #265855

    DivotMaker
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    @newmom 94901 wrote:

    Although it’s not how I would want my kids to date or experience their teen and pre-married lives, these parents take care of their kids on their own (without financial assistance from the state or fed gov) and the kids stay out of trouble, so it’s not my business what rules they have in place for their kids. If their kids don’t like the rules, they can talk with their parents about changing them.

    Very well said.

  • #265857

    EGL Admin
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    Of course they can do what they want. Would any of you raise your kids that way? And since when do we not comment on what others do based on whether or not they receive assistance? 🙂

  • #265884

    newmom
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    The way I see it is that every parent has different rules for their kids, some others agree with and some others don’t. I’m sure there are parents who disagree with things I do as a parent, but that doesn’t mean I’m right or wrong. Again, as long as the kids aren’t causing problems or taking public assistance, the rules these parents have for their kids aren’t my concern. I met a parent at school last week who only lets her 4th grade son read The Bible or books about Jesus and other Christian themes and called Harry Potter “Satan trying to turn kids towards the Dark Arts”. Not my kid, not my kind of rule, but it doesn’t impact me.

  • #265856

    DivotMaker
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    @EGL Admin 94904 wrote:

    Of course they can do what they want. Would any of you raise your kids that way? And since when do we not comment on what others do based on whether or not they receive assistance? 🙂

    Don’t be so sensitive Doc :sarcastic

  • #265858

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    @newmom 94907 wrote:

    The way I see it is that every parent has different rules for their kids, some others agree with and some others don’t. I’m sure there are parents who disagree with things I do as a parent, but that doesn’t mean I’m right or wrong. Again, as long as the kids aren’t causing problems or taking public assistance, the rules these parents have for their kids aren’t my concern. I met a parent at school last week who only lets her 4th grade son read The Bible or books about Jesus and other Christian themes and called Harry Potter “Satan trying to turn kids towards the Dark Arts”. Not my kid, not my kind of rule, but it doesn’t impact me.

    Maybe, maybe not. What happens when kids like that grow up and try to ban abortions or gay marriage? I guess that still wouldn’t “impact” you. 😉

  • #265885

    newmom
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    That could happen wether they are allowed to kiss and hold hands or not.

  • #265881

    LC
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    I don’t remember getting a manual with the childbirth. We all have different rules and different ideologies about raising our children, and none of us are ever right or optimal all of the time. Most of us here seem to have a pretty good direction in my opinion. I don’t imagine many of our kids are turning out bad. I think we do the best we can, and never really know if we’re doing the best thing for them, but we’re usually doing the best we know how to do.

  • #265886

    newmom
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    Exactly. I have never watched their show but I have seen an interview or two with them, but they seem like good people who value family and their religion. Their kids seem to all be required to help around the house (a necessity with a family that large) and seem to get along with each other and actually love each other. Again-their life choices are not the same ones I would make for my or my kids, but then they wouldn’t want my life choices for their kids either. I don’t see any harm from their beliefs and they are taking care of their kids and raising them to be their best, doing the best they can based on what the know.

  • #265871

    adiffer
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    @lc 94913 wrote:

    I don’t remember getting a manual with the childbirth. We all have different rules and different ideologies about raising our children, and none of us are ever right or optimal all of the time. Most of us here seem to have a pretty good direction in my opinion.

    There might not be a manual, but a big part of why we all manage to do pretty well is the fact that we DO pressure each other. It’s a fine line to walk between toleration and coercion, but we do it moderately well.

    On the push side, we pressure each other with moral judgements.
    On the pull side, we copy others who appear to be successful at a particular task.
    Child rearing is a combination of both, so we are doing well as long as their are advocates of each pushing each other to determine where to draw the line between toleration and coercion.

    DocS is just passing judgement on this approach. I happen to agree with him and would probably go farther toward requiring sex education and teaching our kids to manage complex relationships. A mature adult’s success in society depends heavily on their ability to manage complex relationships, so I think it is fundamentally stupid of parents not to teach their kids this stuff.

  • #265887

    tomwaltman
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    Al, you, dear sir, are a socialist. Even the Godless Picard advocated keeping others out of the familial relationship. Turn in your libertarian card, and don the light pink of the American Socialists…

  • #265859

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    LOL Tom. I’m going to have to rethink this if Al agrees with me.

    We all pass judgment on people and parents every day so anyone who is saying they don’t want to judge THIS time is a hypocrite because every one of you has passed judgement previously on parents. If they were letting their kids watch pornos and eat junk food it wouldn’t be our business either. What about if a mom goes to the doctor with her 21 year old son, or goes with him to a job interview, would there be criticism of that by anyone? Pretty sure there would be.

    Getting married without so much as kissing another person is not very smart. Getting married to the first person you kiss isn’t smart either. It’s a very naive way to live not to mention the lack of privacy for the kids. Of course it’s their right to parent that way. Is it the right way?

  • #265888

    tomwaltman
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    Doc, even when you chose not to chose, you have made a choice. My judgement of the Duggars is that it is none of my businesses, and I wish them well. I hope they feel the same about me and my family.

  • #265882

    LC
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    We all make judgments at least hourly, but we don’t always see the need to discuss them publicly.

  • #265872

    adiffer
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    @tomwaltman 94922 wrote:

    Al, you, dear sir, are a socialist. Even the Godless Picard advocated keeping others out of the familial relationship. Turn in your libertarian card, and don the light pink of the American Socialists…

    Heh. Not even close. I would strongly object to someone using coercive powers to enforce punishments after judging others. Whether they used gov’t or other power blocs wouldn’t matter much to me. No coercion is allowed… but persuasion IS and it is even encouraged.

    No action you take is free of consequences in the social sense unless your neighbors choose to tolerate it.
    Hopefully we will all choose to tolerate each other to a very high degree, though, because not doing so is really *&%(* stupid. 8)

  • #265873

    adiffer
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    @EGL Admin 94923 wrote:

    LOL Tom. I’m going to have to rethink this if Al agrees with me.

    Heh. I thought (briefly) about not responding because of this. I’m not sure you’ll understand WHY I agree with you this time, but I do anyway. 8)

    There is value to be found in the act of judging one another. This is how we form the social rules that give validity to legislation.

  • #265874

    adiffer
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    @tomwaltman 94925 wrote:

    Doc, even when you chose not to chose, you have made a choice. My judgement of the Duggars is that it is none of my businesses, and I wish them well. I hope they feel the same about me and my family.

    Very tolerant of you. (applause)

    My judgement is they are screwing their kids, but I’m not going to do anything about it because I don’t want to help support a precedent where others can act against me when they think I’m screwing my own kid.

  • #265860

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    @lc 94927 wrote:

    We all make judgments at least hourly, but we don’t always see the need to discuss them publicly.

    That’s different than saying, “it’s none of my business how someone raises their kids.”

    Of course people here most likely don’t have bad kids. We all care and make an effort. We participate in the community. I’m not worried about any of us here. I am not saying the Duggar kids are bad or will be. That’s not the case. I’m just saying that anyone who has been in a relationship knows how complex it is. Marriage is a huge commitment. People who don’t have any sort of physical relationship will get married sooner just so that they can do that. That’s a horrible reason to get married. You don’t get married so you can have sex.

  • #265861

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    @adiffer 94935 wrote:

    My judgement is they are screwing their kids, but I’m not going to do anything about it because I don’t want to help support a precedent where others can act against me when they think I’m screwing my own kid.

    I agree. I’m not saying we should do anything. It’s a discussion about what other parents would do. As I said earlier if these parents were doing something else that was thought to be harmful, people would have no issue criticizing them for that.

  • #265889

    kindrlindr
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    I have watched the show for a while….this family is not the norm, but the older siblings are the most incredible role models for their younger siblings. I think the older kids have too much responsibility, BUT….none of them seem unhappy, or like they hold a grudge. They seem like a very well run business. I am very impressed with the family as a whole and think the parents have done a great job teaching responsibility and respect to their children. They will not be burdens on society and could teach a thing or two to the gimme generation we seem to have these days. I give them an A+. I think mom needs to protect her health and not have any more kids though……just sayin.

  • #265862

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    Let’s see how they all turn out in 20 years.

  • #265875

    adiffer
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    There is something to be said for not being part of the gimme generation. Parents should be able to do that in a number of ways, though. I’d prefer one that encouraged kids to develop complex relationships. Without that skill, there is a serious danger that they will be stuck as someone’s employee with little knowledge for career advancement or of establishing their own start-up.

    There are a number of us here who work hard to make sure our kids are NOT gimme types too. How many of us are using this type of rigid approach? LC? Docl? Tom? Heh. I can just imagine what they would do if someone encouraged them to raise their kids as little automatons. 8)

    Fortunately, we ARE pretty tolerant. Eyebrows get raised now and then, but that’s about it.

  • #265863

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    Based on previous comments about helicopter parenting, I would imagine that Docl would have some pretty strong comments on these parents. 🙂

    These kids are going to be very naive. I’ve seen kids from parents who raise them in a very strict religious atmosphere and the kids are not very hip to what is going on. They have been sheltered so much that they don’t realize what is going on around them. I’ve seen other kids who are raised in a strict manner, but they are allowed to be exposed to what is going and while they are still a little naive, they at least know what’s going on. Once kids turn 18 you have to let them go. Chaperoning them on dates and their other archaic rules are ridiculous for the world we live in.

  • #265890

    kindrlindr
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    You are only focusing on one thing in the familial structure. Have you watched the show? You might want to just for the heck of it. Parents lead by example….never underestimate the example you lead. These kids will be amazing adults. There might be one or two who fall from the tree, but mark my words, these kids(the majority of them) will be shining examples of what citizens should be.

  • #265864

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    No I’ve never watched the show and have no intention of watching it. If you have adult kids you should not be chaperoning them on dates. Holy smokes, let the kids be adults. They are encouraging the kids to get married too early. Why are they even on TV?

  • #265892

    sisterwoman
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    I cannot see one thing wrong with old fashioned values

  • #265865

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    @sisterwoman 95163 wrote:

    I cannot see one thing wrong with old fashioned values

    Kind of depends on what they are. Chaperoning your kids on dates if they are over 18 is archaic. Getting married without so much as kissing the other person is unwise. What it will do is encourage people to get married too young. Intimacy is a big part of a marriage. You should experience life and date other people and experience the ups and downs of a relationship. It’s something you have to experience first hand. It’s not to say that it can’t work out, but we know half of all marriages fail. I know a lot of people going through it or who have been through it.

    My advice to my kids would be enjoy life until you are 25, then get serious and think about settling down, get married at 30 and have kids after that.

  • #265893

    sisterwoman
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    I was not speaking about chastity belts and the like…but what is wrong with getting to know a person without being physical i.e. saving sex for marriage? I happen to think, and this MY opinion, that a lot of marriages break up because no one spent any time just getting to know their partner.

  • #265866

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    I think not having sex before marriage is fine, but I wouldn’t advise that. But to not even kiss until marriage? That’s a bad idea.

    The problem with marriages is probably lack of communication, lack of quality time together and just giving up. Everyone is so busy now that they drift apart.

  • #265876

    adiffer
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    We used to have this tradition called Engagement that was effectively a contract to marry. It could be broken before the marriage, but not easily and not without consequences. Two people could get to know each other a little better during that period and even treat it as a trial marriage if the families behind them were supportive.

    I get why some people hold to a strict approach disapproving of sex and relationship complexity before marriage, but I think a big part of their need for that comes from the loss of our engagement tradition. Rather that restricting the kids, I think they should revive the tradition and enforce that instead. On a personal level, I find the old tradition somewhat distasteful, but I would tolerate it more than a ‘no-contact’ approach.

  • #265867

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    This reminds me more of something that is set up by two families. I understand the no sex before marriage. Chaperoning and reading private texts and emails? They need alone time to talk in private and get to know each other. It may work for this particular family. I wouldn’t encourage it for others.

  • #265879

    doclaguna
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    So to summarize this thread, we should not make public judgements on things that are none of our business online?

    Time to shut the internet off. G-Night! 😉

    That’s all we do on line, offer opinions and argue over crap that is none of our business. It’s the cyber Barbershop.

    So, back on topic. Should these kids be taken by the state? Hell no. Would I think this is a great strategy with which to raise a kid able to have healthy romantic relationships? None.

  • #265868

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    So to summarize this thread, we should not make public judgments on things that are none of our business online?

    Time to shut the internet off. G-Night! 😉

    That’s all we do on line, offer opinions and argue over crap that is none of our business. It’s the cyber Barbershop.

    I agree. The family has a TV show and they publicize how they live. That sort of makes it everyone’s business and up for comments and opinions. If they were sending their daughters to school in halter tops and daisy dukes, that wouldn’t be our business either but people would sure comment on it. Telling people on the Internet not to comment on something is a waste of time. Especially when it’s something we all do, even the ones saying it’s none of our business. Just as there isn’t a rule book on raising kids according to LC, there isn’t a rule book on how what should be discusses on social media sites.

  • #265877

    adiffer
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    If you look at social rules as things one discovers instead of designs, you’ll see that our rule book requires us to be able to comment on these behaviors. The fact that many don’t is a bit like how some choose not to vote even though they can.

    Community norms emerge from all this.
    Sometimes the norm is to keep your mouth shut and tolerate your neighbor.
    Sometimes it is just to tolerate your neighbor.
    We find them by pushing each other around a bit.

  • #265869

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    @kindrlindr 94943 wrote:

    I have watched the show for a while….this family is not the norm, but the older siblings are the most incredible role models for their younger siblings.

    Care to retract that part? :stir:

  • #265891

    ErinO
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    To me, this seems like bizarre rules. The rules demonstrate a lack of trust in their children and an unnatural aversion to affection.

    Does the fact that their son just confessed to molesting young girls, including his sisters change anyone’s perspective on this at all?

  • #265870

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    I thought it was weird from the start for the reasons you said. I think people need to date other people and experience life first. All this does is encourage kids to get married too early because they want to be able to kiss and have sex.

  • #265878

    adiffer
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    @EGL Admin 112866 wrote:

    All this does is encourage kids to get married too early because they want to be able to kiss and have sex.

    That’s not a bad strategy in a world with syphilis and worse monsters waiting to kill your children. If you happen to be part of a tradition that successfully avoided those horrors (you probably are) you’ll have a set of social rules that keeps you and your children alive and might not even be aware of what your ancestors avoided. You’ll just KNOW what is Right.

    The problem with such optimizations is we can lose in other ways. Defense against disease probably comes at the cost of these risks.

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