fbpx

Good news on the Elk Grove Outlet Mall

This topic contains 46 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  ehmygirl 3 years, 8 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #176805

    EGL Admin
    Member
    • Topics - 3,082
    • Replies - 21,888
    • Total Posts - 24,970

    Good news for Elk Grove shoppers is on the horizon. Howard Hughes Corporation, the developer of the “Outlet Collection at Elk Grove”, could be breaking ground as early as next month with plans to open by Christmas of 2016. Elk Grove City Councilmen Steve Detrick mentioned the shopping mall at his fundraiser yesterday. The mall is almost 50% leased. Once that mark is hit, the developer will begin construction and finish the mall. In October it was announced that Regal Cinemas had signed a lease for a theater complex at the mall. It will operate under the name Edwards Theaters.

    The vacant and half finished mall has been an eyesore for Elk Grove residents and drivers along highway 99 since construction was halted in 2008 due to the recession. The previous developer filed for bankruptcy and the property was purchased by the Hughes Corporation. The City of Elk Grove is hoping the mall will help attract businesses and companies to it’s newest development, the Southeast Policy Area (SEPA), which the city hopes will correct it’s jobs to housing imbalance.

    elkgrovepromenade.jpg

    THE OUTLET COLLECTION AT ELK GROVE

    The 100-acre development located in Elk Grove, California along Route 99 will be transformed into a regional outlet center offering over 100 shops and restaurants along with a 14-screen movie theatre. Designed as an open-air, walkable center with multiple open green spaces, outdoor dining and a children’s play area, The Outlet Collection at Elk Grove will be the ultimate shopping and entertainment destination of choice for Sacramento area residents and state capital visitors alike.

    The first phase includes reconfiguring existing buildings and site work that began during the economic downturn by the former developer to allow for approximately 500,000 square feet of retail in the suburban community located just seventeen miles south of downtown Sacramento. This highly anticipated development will appeal to today’s value-savvy, brand conscious shopper while offering a host of dining and entertainment options not currently found in the area.


    associates-ads-evergreen_TGI_728x90._V362696162_.png

  • #289499

    Bainc
    Member
    • Topics - 9
    • Replies - 892
    • Total Posts - 901

    I won’t believe it until they are actually under construction. Until then cool it on possible opening dates.

  • #289462

    EGL Admin
    Member
    • Topics - 3,082
    • Replies - 21,888
    • Total Posts - 24,970

    @bainc 120499 wrote:

    I won’t believe it until they are actually under construction. Until then cool it on possible opening dates.

    psshhhh there you go letting the air out of the balloon again! 🙂

  • #289495

    Anonymous
    • Topics - 18
    • Replies - 1,250
    • Total Posts - 1,268

    They should really make one of those theatres an IMAX screen.

    I have been back and forth on the EG mall/outlets. But I am slowly getting excited. I hope they can get some good shops to come in.

  • #289473

    LC
    Participant
    • Topics - 640
    • Replies - 7,150
    • Total Posts - 7,790

    Open for Christmas means November 1. Most retailers will not open after that date and will wait until January of the next year. That’s a tight schedule but the impervious layer is down so they can work in the rain. Could happen. Great news.

  • #289506

    onhoth2o
    Member
    • Topics - 10
    • Replies - 24
    • Total Posts - 34

    I contacted HHC last year and asked that they add some upscale stores. Pottery Barn has outlet stores — and L.L. Bean, Lord & Taylor, and many others — that will fit the lifestyles of most of our residents. This mall and the adjacent one going in across the road are going to face increasing competition, particularly from Delta Shores, and a mix with a few more upscale outlet stores and good, sit-down restaurants would add value and increase traffic. Most of us have visited malls across the country, have we not, only to find the same mix of stores as those we see here in the greater Sacramento area. Who needs that? Unfortunately, HHC never so much as acknowledged my letter, even though I had enclosed a list of approximately eighty entities that would generate excellent traffic from shoppers who are tired of having to travel to Folsom and Roseville to find “something just a little different.”

    It’s funny because I sent a similar letter to the competing mall going in across the road from the HHC property. In return I received a warm, hand-signed thank you letter expressing their appreciation for my letter and list of suggestions, and a promise was included to pursue a better mix of retailers. In addition, the letter asked that I keep them in mind if I had additional suggestions. That is good customer relations, don’t you agree?

    It’s funny how companies approach their prospective clientele, and I won’t forget how my letters were received. So I ask, would you rather frequent a mall that values your business or a mall that takes you for granted with a “take it or leave it” approach?

  • #289474

    LC
    Participant
    • Topics - 640
    • Replies - 7,150
    • Total Posts - 7,790

    Their response or lack of doesn’t mean anything, sorry to say. They will lease to retailers who will sign a lease. Input is always considered, but it rarely varies from community to community. Everyone wants something “a little different” and “upscale,” but often spending the dollars differs from the wish list. Demographics, market reach, and in the case of outlet malls, the location of full price stores, are the drivers. I would not expect anything too upscale. Delta Shores is not really competition for the majority of the market reach, and their tenants are mostly very traditional box retailers plus a theater.

  • #289463

    EGL Admin
    Member
    • Topics - 3,082
    • Replies - 21,888
    • Total Posts - 24,970

    @onhoth2o 120506 wrote:

    I contacted HHC last year and asked that they add some upscale stores. Pottery Barn has outlet stores — and L.L. Bean, Lord & Taylor, and many others — that will fit the lifestyles of most of our residents. This mall and the adjacent one going in across the road are going to face increasing competition, particularly from Delta Shores, and a mix with a few more upscale outlet stores and good, sit-down restaurants would add value and increase traffic. Most of us have visited malls across the country, have we not, only to find the same mix of stores as those we see here in the greater Sacramento area. Who needs that? Unfortunately, HHC never so much as acknowledged my letter, even though I had enclosed a list of approximately eighty entities that would generate excellent traffic from shoppers who are tired of having to travel to Folsom and Roseville to find “something just a little different.”

    It’s funny because I sent a similar letter to the competing mall going in across the road from the HHC property. In return I received a warm, hand-signed thank you letter expressing their appreciation for my letter and list of suggestions, and a promise was included to pursue a better mix of retailers. In addition, the letter asked that I keep them in mind if I had additional suggestions. That is good customer relations, don’t you agree?

    It’s funny how companies approach their prospective clientele, and I won’t forget how my letters were received. So I ask, would you rather frequent a mall that values your business or a mall that takes you for granted with a “take it or leave it” approach?

    I think the Hughes Corporation is a much larger company than the developers of the land adjacent to it. It’s like saying you got a reply back from LC, but not HHC. I agree with LC that I wouldn’t read into that too much. HHC has more contact with retailers than any of us do. People should understand that there is a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes. Do you not think HHC may be in contact with those stores? If those stores are not here, it’s not because they weren’t contacted. It’s because they don’t want to be here.

  • #289496

    gearshark23
    Member
    • Topics - 23
    • Replies - 1,226
    • Total Posts - 1,249

    Did I hear correct that they have to tear most if it down?

    So they’re going to be able to finish it in 11 months? We will see… If it does get done great news for Elk Grove. Hopefully they have some good stores or I’ll still be making the trip to Folsom.

    The Automall benefits from not having that mall open though. Because that’s one of the routes most of the dealerships use for test drives.

    I’m still waiting for the hall they’re supposed to build. Veteran’s Hall or something like that.

  • #289464

    EGL Admin
    Member
    • Topics - 3,082
    • Replies - 21,888
    • Total Posts - 24,970

    I don’t believe most of it has to be torn down. Part of it will be because the mall will be smaller than originally planned.

  • #289475

    LC
    Participant
    • Topics - 640
    • Replies - 7,150
    • Total Posts - 7,790

    @gearshark23 120514 wrote:

    Hopefully they have some good stores or I’ll still be making the trip to Folsom.

    I would certainly hope it will be better than Folsom. Since Saks closed, I haven’t been there. It has become pretty pedestrian in selection, no? Lots of the good stores are gone. I don’t know what’s left, honestly. I make the trip to Vacaville–I think it’s worth it a couple of times a year. Plus there’s Fenton’s….:-)

  • #289497

    gearshark23
    Member
    • Topics - 23
    • Replies - 1,226
    • Total Posts - 1,249

    @lc 120518 wrote:

    I would certainly hope it will be better than Folsom. Since Saks closed, I haven’t been there. It has become pretty pedestrian in selection, no? Lots of the good stores are gone. I don’t know what’s left, honestly. I make the trip to Vacaville–I think it’s worth it a couple of times a year. Plus there’s Fenton’s….:-)

    Yes. Not too much out there. I go for the Nike Outlet and my wife goes for Coach outlet. I haven’t been to Vacaville in a while I may have to venture out there.

  • #289486

    newmom
    Participant
    • Topics - 206
    • Replies - 6,205
    • Total Posts - 6,411

    @EGL Admin 120512 wrote:

    I think the Hughes Corporation is a much larger company than the developers of the land adjacent to it. It’s like saying you got a reply back from LC, but not HHC. I agree with LC that I wouldn’t read into that too much. HHC has more contact with retailers than any of us do. People should understand that there is a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes. Do you not think HHC may be in contact with those stores? If those stores are not here, it’s not because they weren’t contacted. It’s because they don’t want to be here.

    I agree. Everyone wants “upscale” but the reality is that when we’ve tried “upscale” in Elk Grove it has failed. Most of Elk Grove is middle class, and while there isn’t anything wrong with that, it does mean that we aren’t going to see a different mix of stores than we see in other outlet type malls across the country. The retailers have a much better handle on what markets they can and will be successful in than we as consumers do. Just saying we want upscale doesn’t mean it will make enough to be successful, or that there aren’t other cities that can better support more upscale stores. Plus, Elk Grove is getting into the mall game much later than other cities (like Roseville). We don’t have as much discretionary income and we aren’t a proven shopping location yet.

  • #289507

    zepp
    Participant
    • Topics - 2
    • Replies - 18
    • Total Posts - 20

    Exciting news! I would love for some different stores rather than the Folsom ones…I hardly go there but it would be nice nonetheless not to have to drive to Folsom.

  • #289508

    ehmygirl
    Member
    • Topics - 0
    • Replies - 18
    • Total Posts - 18

    I really hope there’s going to be an Apple Store down here. We shouldn’t have to go to Arden for anything once it’s up.

  • #289465

    EGL Admin
    Member
    • Topics - 3,082
    • Replies - 21,888
    • Total Posts - 24,970

    Not likely to happen. 🙂

  • #289492

    kindrlindr
    Participant
    • Topics - 34
    • Replies - 2,374
    • Total Posts - 2,408

    LOL upscale sounds good, but it doesn’t fly in EG. Who wants to pay more than they should? EG residents like deals and bargains-not cheap stuff, but stuff that is a good deal. I hope this outlet mall starts construction and doesn’t stop until its COMPLETE this time. I am so tired of looking at it.

  • #289487

    newmom
    Participant
    • Topics - 206
    • Replies - 6,205
    • Total Posts - 6,411

    It certainly is ugly. It will be nice to drive past and not see the ugly rusty space.

  • #289476

    LC
    Participant
    • Topics - 640
    • Replies - 7,150
    • Total Posts - 7,790

    I would not expect too much, especially after seeing the roster for Delta Shores. Very ordinary, nothing very exciting. Those are the retailers that are doing well, those that are expanding. The specialty merchants still are not doing that well–our “recovery” isn’t really happening like in some other areas. It should do well. When we were working on Laguna/Bruceville in the early 2000s, we and the city paid for a study and it said the area could support both the big mall and ours, and we were specialty, upper end. We did have some good tenants then that would not go there now. We were pretty angry that the city delayed us with their foolish main street requirement, which we refused to do. Now we’re so grateful to them because it probably would have had us at the Food Bank, and not as donors.

  • #289494

    ActionEmotion
    Member
    • Topics - 130
    • Replies - 1,822
    • Total Posts - 1,952

    I will believe it when I see it. Until then it’s all just dreaming.

  • #289500

    Bainc
    Member
    • Topics - 9
    • Replies - 892
    • Total Posts - 901

    @lc 120659 wrote:

    We were pretty angry that the city delayed us with their foolish main street requirement, which we refused to do.

    What was the “main street requirement’?

  • #289477

    LC
    Participant
    • Topics - 640
    • Replies - 7,150
    • Total Posts - 7,790

    They still have it on their plan, but no one is going to build it. It’s what was popular in the early 2000s, and has worked in a few places. Mix of retail on the ground level, residential and office above, central parking and walking areas. It was modified to drop the residential component in Folsom and EDH, but I don’t think Elliott will ever come out on it because of the years it sat there unleased with a cash burn of nearly $18,000 per DAY. EDH has never worked well. Their rents are similar to ours for a fraction of the building costs. It is a LOSER.

  • #289501

    Bainc
    Member
    • Topics - 9
    • Replies - 892
    • Total Posts - 901

    You mean over by the Civic Center site? I was confused because you said you were working on the Laguna/Bruceville site. Thought they were talking about a main street over there.

  • #289478

    LC
    Participant
    • Topics - 640
    • Replies - 7,150
    • Total Posts - 7,790

    Same thing. We had all the frontage from Bruceville to Big Horn and east, until we gave the site on the NEC of EG and BH to the city.

  • #289502

    Bainc
    Member
    • Topics - 9
    • Replies - 892
    • Total Posts - 901

    Didn’t know they were trying to do a “main street” there back then.

  • #289466

    EGL Admin
    Member
    • Topics - 3,082
    • Replies - 21,888
    • Total Posts - 24,970

    People talked of a shopping area, something like a Santana Row, but not that nice. That would never fly here. It would be a ghost town. I think the city wanted to make it like the core of Elk Grove. People in Old Town complained.

  • #289498

    gearshark23
    Member
    • Topics - 23
    • Replies - 1,226
    • Total Posts - 1,249

    @ehmygirl 120652 wrote:

    I really hope there’s going to be an Apple Store down here. We shouldn’t have to go to Arden for anything once it’s up.

    Highly doubt it…..

  • #289503

    Bainc
    Member
    • Topics - 9
    • Replies - 892
    • Total Posts - 901

    Build thousands and thousands of RD-5 to RD-7 communities that are cheap (all of Laguna/Franklin) with very few higher end homes and what do you get? A middle class community with modest incomes that can’t support high end retail and dining. The demographics can’t support it. You could build all the high end stores in the world and all I would do is window shop.

  • #289479

    LC
    Participant
    • Topics - 640
    • Replies - 7,150
    • Total Posts - 7,790

    @EGL Admin 120676 wrote:

    People talked of a shopping area, something like a Santana Row, but not that nice. That would never fly here. It would be a ghost town. I think the city wanted to make it like the core of Elk Grove. People in Old Town complained.

    It doesn’t work well practically anywhere for one simple reason–parking. No one wants to walk a couple of blocks when we’re used to parking in front of our stores in most cases, except for covered malls which we do not visit with much frequency–any of us–except maybe kids who hang out and don’t spend money.

    Last night Bayside has a Christmas concert, and Lincoln Brewster was talking about prayer, and how through prayer he know one day the “big event” will happen. He went on to say the big event was a parking space at Nordstrom’s door open for him! We are REALLY ingrained in convenience, and that’s one good reason why the structured parking malls in the suburbs with everyday or non mall stores rarely work. There are too many options.

  • #289467

    EGL Admin
    Member
    • Topics - 3,082
    • Replies - 21,888
    • Total Posts - 24,970

    Looks like at least one of the potential Elk Grove Shopping mall stores is already hiring.

    American Eagle Outfitters

  • #289488

    newmom
    Participant
    • Topics - 206
    • Replies - 6,205
    • Total Posts - 6,411

    @lc 120685 wrote:

    It doesn’t work well practically anywhere for one simple reason–parking. No one wants to walk a couple of blocks when we’re used to parking in front of our stores in most cases, except for covered malls which we do not visit with much frequency–any of us–except maybe kids who hang out and don’t spend money.

    Last night Bayside has a Christmas concert, and Lincoln Brewster was talking about prayer, and how through prayer he know one day the “big event” will happen. He went on to say the big event was a parking space at Nordstrom’s door open for him! We are REALLY ingrained in convenience, and that’s one good reason why the structured parking malls in the suburbs with everyday or non mall stores rarely work. There are too many options.

    25 years ago I worked in a mall while in high school. It was an older mall, with larger, newer, more modern malls anywhere from 10-20 miles farther away. It was still a mall that lots of people went to-parents looking for something specific, kids would go to for shopping with friends, but for a bigger, special shopping day (Prom dress) you went to South Coast Plaza or another mall. Tenants started not renewing leases and mall management got desperate to fill vacant stores and started bringing in stores like CVS and other “every day” stores, rather than stores that are only in malls and not on every street corner of most cities. So, fewer people went to that mall and instead when to other malls for shopping, so more tenants left the mall. Within two years the mall was a ghost town, and ended up closing a few years later. Things like Wal Mart and convenience stores won’t attract shoppers to a mall and I don’t know why people don’t get that.

  • #289480

    LC
    Participant
    • Topics - 640
    • Replies - 7,150
    • Total Posts - 7,790

    Wal-Mart won’t attract shoppers to a mall? You’re joking, right? They are now the largest and most frequent covered mall anchor tenant in the U.S.

  • #289468

    EGL Admin
    Member
    • Topics - 3,082
    • Replies - 21,888
    • Total Posts - 24,970

    I think maybe her point was that do people go to Walmart and then the rest of the mall as part of their shopping? Is there carryover?

  • #289489

    newmom
    Participant
    • Topics - 206
    • Replies - 6,205
    • Total Posts - 6,411

    @lc 122560 wrote:

    Wal-Mart won’t attract shoppers to a mall? You’re joking, right? They are now the largest and most frequent covered mall anchor tenant in the U.S.

    If there is a WalMart .5 miles from your house, and one at a mall, and the one at the mall is less convenient in every sense of the word, which one are you going to? People aren’t going to the mall to visit Wal Mart. They are going for the other stores that aren’t on every corner in their town.
    You also said that the covered malls aren’t frequented by anyone spending money-just kids who wander around and don’t spend.

  • #289469

    EGL Admin
    Member
    • Topics - 3,082
    • Replies - 21,888
    • Total Posts - 24,970

    I think shopping has changed a lot over the years. I remember going to the mall to get a few things at different stores. I think now people dread going to the mall. Especially like Arden Fair, because of the parking.
    I didn’t go to any of the malls this holiday season. Did a lot of online shopping, went to Kohl’s, Best Buy. The only time I can recall going to mall this year was I think to go to the Apple Store.

    Isn’t Walmart also a popular anchor just because they eat up a lot of space and if you’re the developer, isn’t that a good thing?

  • #289481

    LC
    Participant
    • Topics - 640
    • Replies - 7,150
    • Total Posts - 7,790

    @newmom 122564 wrote:

    If there is a WalMart .5 miles from your house, and one at a mall, and the one at the mall is less convenient in every sense of the word, which one are you going to? People aren’t going to the mall to visit Wal Mart. They are going for the other stores that aren’t on every corner in their town.

    I understand your argument about going to a closer Wal-Mart than one in a mall, however Wal-Mart would not anchor malls if they were not profitable, and yes, people most certainly DO go to malls because of Wal-Mart. Remember, not everyone has your shopping habits, and Wal-Mart is in other areas besides densely populated California.

    You also said that the covered malls aren’t frequented by anyone spending money-just kids who wander around and don’t spend.

    No I didn’t, because that would be a false statement. What I did say was that most people do not shop them with great frequency except kids. How many times do you go to a mall each month? A grocery store? That’s the difference, frequency, not dollars spent.

    I can also tell you that if tenants were given a choice of being next to or close to any one store, in most cases it would be Wal-Mart. One senior rep for a national company told me once his initial selection criteria was pretty simple. “I want to see Wal-Mart and smell McDonald’s. “

  • #289470

    EGL Admin
    Member
    • Topics - 3,082
    • Replies - 21,888
    • Total Posts - 24,970

    Does Walmart anchor any “malls” around here or just large strip center type malls? I think when I think of a mall, I think of it in the traditional sense.

  • #289490

    newmom
    Participant
    • Topics - 206
    • Replies - 6,205
    • Total Posts - 6,411

    Then what does this statement from you mean?

    “We are REALLY ingrained in convenience, and that’s one good reason why the structured parking malls in the suburbs with everyday or non mall stores rarely work. There are too many options.”

  • #289471

    adiffer
    Participant
    • Topics - 179
    • Replies - 9,504
    • Total Posts - 9,683

    Wal-mart anchors an old mall down the road from me and has a couple other independent places around town. The one at the mall does well and draws people to the mall. If it weren’t for them, that mall would have collapsed a few years ago.

  • #289482

    LC
    Participant
    • Topics - 640
    • Replies - 7,150
    • Total Posts - 7,790

    @newmom 122574 wrote:

    Then what does this statement from you mean?

    “We are REALLY ingrained in convenience, and that’s one good reason why the structured parking malls in the suburbs with everyday or non mall stores rarely work. There are too many options.”

    That statement isn’t even related to the topic. Do you know what structured parking is, and understand convenience shopping versus comparison shopping? Do you see we were talking about Main Street projects then? Jeez Newmom!

  • #289491

    newmom
    Participant
    • Topics - 206
    • Replies - 6,205
    • Total Posts - 6,411

    Isn’t structured parking like the three or so level building behind the Macy’s area of Arden Fair? A building with multiple levels of parking spaces, ramps from level to level, but above ground, not below ground or below office spaces (like exists under many of the buildings downtown)?

  • #289493

    kindrlindr
    Participant
    • Topics - 34
    • Replies - 2,374
    • Total Posts - 2,408

    Has anything even broken ground on the outlets yet? I can’t believe I can practically see it (ok, not really but its darn close) from here but haven’t even looked over there lately……

    How can they be hiring without any sort of open date in sight?

  • #289483

    LC
    Participant
    • Topics - 640
    • Replies - 7,150
    • Total Posts - 7,790

    @adiffer 122575 wrote:

    Wal-mart anchors an old mall down the road from me and has a couple other independent places around town. The one at the mall does well and draws people to the mall. If it weren’t for them, that mall would have collapsed a few years ago.

    Country Club Center has a Walmart anchor. We used to manage that mall. It wasn’t bad, had Wards and Rhodes, Joseph Magnin.

    Walmart is the #1 anchor now for covered malls, Target #2 except Target is in pretty bad shape now and doing mostly nothing for expansion. But, malls like Country Club and Al’s example are the rule rather than the exception–they are second generation users usually, not ground up in covered malls. The last 15 years or so, an average of less than two covered malls per year have been built nationwide. Who is left to anchor them–no one, or not enough to justify the costs, especially the operating costs. So, as traditional anchor department stores die off, Walmart and Target have moved in.

    Since I’ve been in the retail real estate business (38 years this year), we’ve gone through crazy expansion of covered malls, then power centers, then festival malls, then lifestyle malls, then main streets, and now we’re back to power centers which are the only ones left that can make any economic sense. Both Arden Fair and Galleria do very well, and they are the only decent malls left in the area, and only Pavilions is new in the last 20 years. Downtown Plaza is mostly gone, Sunrise is dead, both Country Clubs are pretty much lower end infills now. Florin died off years ago and was converted. Birdcage Walk only survived when it was converted to drive ups rather than the goofy corridors that we could never keep leased.

    For the first time I can remember, we don’t know where retail is going to go, and we’re not seeing the innovations we’ve had in the past. Our strip malls are mature, although they still work, but only because they exist from an era of cheaper costs and we usually provide food and service now which are hard to obtain from the Internet. You can’t build a new one today–rents are still in the 1995-2000 range when it was much, much cheaper to build than today. Neighborhood grocery centers are marginally profitable, but again not ground up usually. Power centers can work if they are large enough to absorb the infrastructure costs and the land is next to free. The speciality centers just don’t work for the most part, again largely because of the costs vs. the lower rents that are driven by slower retail sales as the Internet continues to take share from the brick and mortar stores.

    Outlet malls are an occasional bright spot if the mix is decent and the economics are there. Going ground up on a market price deal is difficult, maybe not possible. The Elk Grove mall is a hybrid with the theaters, not usually an outlet mall component, and should do OK. It will probably be fairly youth, lower cost, somewhat ethnic oriented, because that’s who is spending the money now.

  • #289504

    Bainc
    Member
    • Topics - 9
    • Replies - 892
    • Total Posts - 901

    LC ~ What do you think about the Milago shopping center being developed at Marconi and Fair Oaks? And how would you classify it as a shopping center/mall?

  • #289484

    LC
    Participant
    • Topics - 640
    • Replies - 7,150
    • Total Posts - 7,790

    @bainc 122592 wrote:

    LC ~ What do you think about the Milago shopping center being developed at Marconi and Fair Oaks? And how would you classify it as a shopping center/mall?

    I do ‘t know much about it, actually nothing–haven’t even seen it. But, we don’t have to know much, given the location. No one in their right mind would do a theme center in a neighborhood location, especially in a community where few people have made any money in shopping centers of any kind in the last 30 years or so. Carmichael and Fair Oaks are terrible retail areas. Neither have good access from other areas, and the trade areas are narrow and vertical with few dominant intersections. I’ve never built in either nor would I, unless you’re at Hazel and Madison/Greenback or on Sunrise near Citrus Heights. And, when you combine the incredibly inconvenient locations with a culinary theme, you’ve pretty much eliminated any reasonable chance of success, meaning creating real property value. Think lipstick on a pig.

  • #289505

    Bainc
    Member
    • Topics - 9
    • Replies - 892
    • Total Posts - 901

    I heard the developer interviewed at length on the KFBK business exchange with Kelly Brothers. They seemed to think they were on the leading edge of a hot new trend with a culinary theme. I’m doubting it will be a success but you never know. People are having less kids, eating out more, partying, paying for experiences, etc. You can’t have Amazon ship you dinner. But that’s a terrible location to access unless you live nearby.

  • #289485

    LC
    Participant
    • Topics - 640
    • Replies - 7,150
    • Total Posts - 7,790

    People were all ga ga about that turd on Douglas east of Sierra College with the pond and fancy restaurants too. Even some of the brokers who are normally skeptical thought they had something. Of course, they lost everything too, and one of my neighbors picked it up for $5M which heck I would have done that it was so cheap. He’ll come out because he needs so little income to do so, and only because of that.

    You can have all the glitz and PR money can buy, but you can’t change the location of real estate, and that is of course the primary determinant of success potential.

  • #289472

    adiffer
    Participant
    • Topics - 179
    • Replies - 9,504
    • Total Posts - 9,683

    I’ve been watching Target for a while now and don’t get why they think they can continue without changing their business model. By themselves, they are in competition with online shopping and it’s hard to beat someone with much lower infrastructure costs. As part of a mall they can work, but there better be something there that can’t be delivered online.

    We’ve got a mall in Ventura that is built like a big X. There is an anchor at each end. Target, Macy’s, JC Penny, and Sears. It is managing to survive, but there are times when the place is just dead. Watch for a while and you’ll realize it isn’t the anchors who are anchoring it. It’s the restaurants in the peripheral parking lots. Lots and lots of them.

    Honestly, though, I think Wal-Mart is going to find themselves in this same trap, but other companies will die first. Wal-Mart serves people who can’t shop on-line all that well, so they are partially protected… but that won’t last forever.

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Privacy Policy