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Is this over protective?

This topic contains 63 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Tominelkgrove 6 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #173594

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    Even I thought this was over the top πŸ™‚

    I went to the A’s game the other day a friend and he brought his grandson and I brought my boys and he was telling me about his daughter who works for the CYA in Stockton. She was saying what she has learned from them is very eye opening about what they do and what they have been through. He was saying that if you have kids, especially boys, you never ever let them go to the restroom alone. You go in there with them and you even check the stalls and make sure no one is in there when they go in.

    We always went in with them until the last year or so. They are 9 and 11 now. Now we have them go in together, even if one doesn’t have to go, they both go in, unless it’s at a restaurant or some place we know and we can see the bathroom, but even then we figure there is less chance of something happening with two of them. Also depends on where it’s at. Like at a Kings or A’s game, we would still go with them. Just in case they get lost and there are a lot of people there. Definitely at places like park bathrooms or places where there are large crowds or potential for creepy people we would go with them. My friend said there are so many creepy people out there and you don’t realize they are watching you. I’ve never looked in the stalls before, but you can usually see people if there was.

  • #254520

    doclaguna
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    @EGL Admin 81860 wrote:

    You go in there with them and you even check the stalls and make sure no one is in there when they go in. .

    That might make it hard for kids to every take a leak at a ballgame. You mean they are only allowed to pee if the bathroom is completely empty? πŸ˜‰

    So with your kids, if its just your wife and them, does she take them into the ladies or let them go in the men’s alone? Not trying to troll. Just curious.

  • #254549

    ErinO
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    My son is seven and when I am out with him I let him go to the restroom alone, since I cannot go into the men’s room with him.

  • #254492

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    @doclaguna 81863 wrote:

    That might make it hard for kids to every take a leak at a ballgame. You mean they are only allowed to pee if the bathroom is completely empty? πŸ˜‰

    So with your kids, if its just your wife and them, does she take them into the ladies or let them go in the men’s alone? Not trying to troll. Just curious.

    They go into the mens room, but she waits outside. I don’t think they have been in a ladies room since they were little. Lots of places have family restrooms or what I would call “1 holers” where it’s one at a time.

    I think what my friend’s daughter meant was to make sure there wasn’t someone waiting in the stall for them. I think that is a little too much paranoia. If we only had 1 kid, then I think we would be more cautious about one of them going into the bathroom alone. That’s why we send them both in. Less likely something will happen.

    Our oldest has a thing, I think it’s psychological, where just about any time we are at a new place or restaurant he has to take dump. It’s a running joke. “oh new place, what a shock, he has to go to the restroom…” Worst at dirty public places like public restroom in SF or a Kings game. I could stay at a Kings game for 2 days I won’t do anything other than pee there. My nephew who is 40 will not go anything other than pee away from home. He went to Maui for a 5 days and never went. And he eats like a horse.

  • #254493

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    @erino 81865 wrote:

    My son is seven and when I am out with him I let him go to the restroom alone, since I cannot go into the men’s room with him.

    Kind of don’t have much choice there. If you were at the movies, would you wait in the theater and let him go out by himself and come back or walk out with him? At the Century on Big Horn I would because the bathrooms are more in the middle of the auditorium. At the one on Bruceville, the mens room is off to the side by itself and there is an exit there right by it. That one is a little sketchier to me.

  • #254554

    Karen
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    I get where he’s coming from.

    As a single mom, I can’t really do this. When he was younger, like under 5, I’d take him in the women’s restroom with me but now that he’s older I can’t do that. I admit it makes me a bit nervous, especially when he’s in there for more than a few minutes.

  • #254494

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    It’s up to my wife when and where she does it. I don’t think they go to many scary places where she feels it’s not safe. A couple of times our oldest comes back without his brother and we ask where he’s at and he said he’s not finished yet, so we told him get back in there and wait for him. You don’t want to make them paranoid there’s a bad guy around every corner and we don’t explain too much about why other than there are creepy people around and to keep an eye out.

  • #254513

    adiffer
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    I tend to go with my son and look at the guys in the restroom. The idea is to make it clear who this boy’s father is. That’s usually enough, but if there is anyone in there sketchy looking I’ll make eye contact. Anyone who tries too hard to avoid eye contact gets special scrutiny as I hang around and violate men’s restroom ettiquette. 8)

    I get why some people are extra cautious, but it is important to teach boys a bit of situational awareness if possible. Teach them to pay attention and trust their guts. If they think there might be a threat, it is time to leave, not to doubt themselves or wait to analyze more. The bigger they are, the more risk they can take with waiting and watching, but situational awareness rules still apply.

  • #254542

    sea
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    Last year I investigated a case where boys were being “bothered” by a pedophile who hung out in the public library bathroom. One brave youth fled when approached and called his mother who called us. The pedophile was still in a stall waiting for more kids. We will never know how many victims he had. All we could do was arrest him on a misdemeanor. Ugh.

    I would have thought a nice, clean, indoor, multi-stall library restroom, with uniformed security guards all around, would be safe. Nope.

  • #254514

    adiffer
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    Safety is an illusion as is the thought that police and security gaurds can make it so. Safety is really OUR job.
    As long as we can call you all in to deal with the potentially coercive interaction it can work well enough.

    In truth, though, my main duty when I follow my son is to deal with the fact that he can’t manage situational awareness very well. If there is a line for the stalls, I hold him to the rules because he can’t figure out ‘what happens next’ when he breaks them. Most people make brief eye contact, figure him out, and adjust their expectations rapidly. I’m there mostly to offer the smiles necessary to reward their tolerance. It works the vast majority of the time.

  • #254495

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    @sea 81876 wrote:

    Last year I investigated a case where boys were being “bothered” by a pedophile who hung out in the public library bathroom. One brave youth fled when approached and called his mother who called us. The pedophile was still in a stall waiting for more kids. We will never know how many victims he had. All we could do was arrest him on a misdemeanor. Ugh.

    I would have thought a nice, clean, indoor, multi-stall library restroom, with uniformed security guards all around, would be safe. Nope.

    That’s scary. That’s where a little street justice would be good. Maybe we can put gangs to good use. have them take care of of the pedophiles and sickos.

  • #254515

    adiffer
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    How much do you want to pay them for this protection? 8)

  • #254496

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    All the pot they can smoke or sell.

  • #254521

    doclaguna
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    @EGL Admin 81870 wrote:

    You don’t want to make them paranoid there’s a bad guy around every corner and we don’t explain too much about why other than there are creepy people around and to keep an eye out.

    Wisest thing you’ve said in a while.
    Otherwise, be ready to have the kid who is 24 and still taking Mommy to the doctors when he has an earache.

    SEA’s story aside, there is little risk of something bad happening in a public restroom with a parent outside. You might as well be afraid of getting struck by lightening.

    As far as “stranger danger” advice, I told my girls to watch for young men, and if they feel strange approach an older woman or someone with kids. Not all strangers are dangerous. I have no problems teaching my girls how to profile.

  • #254497

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    Otherwise, be ready to have the kid who is 24 and still taking Mommy to the doctors when he has an earache.

    Which is more likely a 24 year old who does that or a getting struck by lightning?

    That’s where you take things to the extreme and absurd though. You equate behaviors at one age and extrapolate it to the extreme to try and prove your point. Like if you don’t let your kid ride their bike alone at 9 they will be not be able to handle things at 18. That’s like saying if you don’t get your kids in a sport at 5, they can’t compete at 8. That’s a bunch of BS.

    There’s extremes on both sides, from too protective to not enough. Each parent decides for themselves what is best. With younger kids my thought is to lean towards more protection than less. They can learn things faster at a later age and make up any ground you feel they may lose. Once they hit middle school everything changes. They can’t make up for being dead and safety is always a paramount concern that overrides pushing them to grow up. Independence starting at 8 or 12 won’t matter by 18.

    SEA’s story aside, there is little risk of something bad happening in a public restroom with a parent outside. You might as well be afraid of getting struck by lightening.

    I don’t know the percentages. You’re being inconsistent though with risk avoidance.

  • #254550

    ErinO
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    @EGL Admin 81868 wrote:

    Kind of don’t have much choice there. If you were at the movies, would you wait in the theater and let him go out by himself and come back or walk out with him? At the Century on Big Horn I would because the bathrooms are more in the middle of the auditorium. At the one on Bruceville, the mens room is off to the side by itself and there is an exit there right by it. That one is a little sketchier to me.

    I would send him to the bathroom alone, but my bigger worry in that situation would be that he wouldn’t be able to find the right theater and me in the dark when he tried to return. So for that reason, I might go with him.

  • #254516

    adiffer
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    Doc’s:

    Apples and Oranges.

    There is a distinction we draw between Hazard and Harm. Some types of harm we won’t tolerate no matter the size of the hazard. The pain we suffer from the harm drives us emotionally… some stronger than others.

  • #254498

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    @adiffer 81892 wrote:

    Doc’s:

    Apples and Oranges.

    There is a distinction we draw between Hazard and Harm. Some types of harm we won’t tolerate no matter the size of the hazard. The pain we suffer from the harm drives us emotionally… some stronger than others.

    So what is your point in English?

  • #254517

    adiffer
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    6th grade English?

    Perception of risk barely correlates with response to harm for most people.

    If it did, we sure as hell would stop driving. The odds of getting through life without injury caused in a car accident are not pretty.

  • #254543

    sea
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    I have PLENTY more stories where that came from.

    I think it’s difficult to “profile” a sex offender.

    Who would have thought a 14 year old boy would kidnap a 66 year old woman, bind her, rape and do other horrific things to her, beat and stab her and leave her in a ditch? I mean, really?

    My point is better safe than sorry. I’ve encountered countless parents who will never forgive themselves for being too trusting.

  • #254522

    doclaguna
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    @sea 81899 wrote:

    I have PLENTY more stories where that came from.

    I think it’s difficult to “profile” a sex offender.

    Who would have thought a 14 year old boy would kidnap a 66 year old woman, bind her, rape and sodomize her, beat and stab her and leave her in a ditch? I’m mean, really?

    My point is better safe than sorry. I’ve encountered countless parents who will never forgive themselves for being too trusting.

    I would. How many elderly women do you see as sex offenders. Or women with small children. I’m not trusting at all, but I’m also not fearful.

  • #254523

    doclaguna
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    @adiffer 81896 wrote:

    6th grade English?
    .

    Better dumb it down a bit more for him, that’s about the limit of his education…

  • #254544

    sea
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    @doclaguna 81900 wrote:

    I would. How many elderly women do you see as sex offenders. Or women with small children. I’m not trusting at all, but I’m also not fearful.

    That’s exactly as I believe it should be. Not trusting, but not fearful.

  • #254524

    doclaguna
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    @erino 81891 wrote:

    I would send him to the bathroom alone, but my bigger worry in that situation would be that he wouldn’t be able to find the right theater and me in the dark when he tried to return. So for that reason, I might go with him.

    I went to the IMAX with my 10 year old. She needed to go pee mid way through, I let her go. She came back with her free refill of coke slurpee. Amazing how competent kids can get when we let them have practice.

  • #254525

    doclaguna
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    @EGL Admin 81888 wrote:

    Which is more likely a 24 year old who does that or a getting struck by lightning?

    That’s where you take things to the extreme and absurd though. You equate behaviors at one age and extrapolate it to the extreme to try and prove your point. Like if you don’t let your kid ride their bike alone at 9 they will be not be able to handle things at 18. That’s like saying if you don’t get your kids in a sport at 5, they can’t compete at 8. That’s a bunch of BS.

    There’s extremes on both sides, from too protective to not enough. Each parent decides for themselves what is best. With younger kids my thought is to lean towards more protection than less. They can learn things faster at a later age and make up any ground you feel they may lose. Once they hit middle school everything changes. They can’t make up for being dead and safety is always a paramount concern that overrides pushing them to grow up. Independence starting at 8 or 12 won’t matter by 18.

    I don’t know the percentages. You’re being inconsistent though with risk avoidance.

    You, as usual, are missing the point. The problem is not the kid at 8 or 12. It’s the parenting. You think this over protective parent is going to be more appropriate when the kid is a bit older? No. They will be just as clingy and fearful. I have yet to meet an anxious kid, whether 6 or 12 or 25, that doesn’t have an anxious parent. You see a parent who is calm about shots, the kid will be calm. You get a basketcase parent, you know the kid is going to be anxious.
    You are doing your kids no favors by making them anxious and insecure. They cannot go from 0 to 60 as far as independence. If your kid can’t take a leak at age 8-9 without you clearing the bathroom SWAT style, they are going to have problems later in life. And if you think I don’t practice what I preach come hang out with my girls and I. They’ve been doing for themselves for years. I will consider myself a failure as a parent if I raise useless citizens.

  • #254526

    doclaguna
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    @sea 81902 wrote:

    That’s exactly as I believe it should be. Not trusting, but not fearful.

    Yup. But being afraid of imaginary boogey men is not a good idea.

  • #254545

    sea
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    @doclaguna 81905 wrote:

    Yup. But being afraid of imaginary boogey men is not a good idea.

    Being aware not all boogey men are imaginary is also a good idea. They come in all shapes and sizes and ages.

    I can’t tell you how shocked I was when my former boss the priest was arrested and convicted. He totally fooled me and every other former CID and NCIS and other assorted investigators in our office. You never know.

  • #254518

    adiffer
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    @doclaguna 81901 wrote:

    Better dumb it down a bit more for him, that’s about the limit of his education…

    Heh. We are going through a phase of rib-poking lately.

    Unfortunately, my story isn’t all that useful since my situation is an extreme. My wife and I are trained to behave a certain way for our son, but if we did the same for a neuro-typical kid it would be overbearing. It’s REALLY hard for us to hold back when we see parents taking risks we couldn’t stomach with our own son. I have to sorta-pretend I don’t notice.

  • #254551

    omgnate
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    @doclaguna 81863 wrote:

    That might make it hard for kids to every take a leak at a ballgame. You mean they are only allowed to pee if the bathroom is completely empty? πŸ˜‰

    So with your kids, if its just your wife and them, does she take them into the ladies or let them go in the men’s alone? Not trying to troll. Just curious.

    When my grandsons were young and too old for the ladies room, I stood outside the restroom and maintained voice contact with them..I warned them if they didn’t answer me I was coming in..He’ll has no fury like a grandmama bear! I would have kicked butt if anyone messed with my boys..

  • #254546

    sea
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    @omgnate 81911 wrote:

    When my grandsons were young and too old for the ladies room, I stood outside the restroom and maintained voice contact with them..I warned them if they didn’t answer me I was coming in..He’ll has no fury like a grandmama bear! I would have kicked butt if anyone messed with my boys..

    I’m so with you. Anyone messes with my grandson and…..well….lets just say they would probably disappear without a trace.

  • #254499

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    @omgnate 81911 wrote:

    When my grandsons were young and too old for the ladies room, I stood outside the restroom and maintained voice contact with them..I warned them if they didn’t answer me I was coming in..He’ll has no fury like a grandmama bear! I would have kicked butt if anyone messed with my boys..

    Then if we use doclaguna’s logic your grandson is going to be a useless citizen because you didn’t let him pee alone when he was 8, LOL.

    Doclaguna: Yup. But being afraid of imaginary boogey men is not a good idea.

    Yet your logic is based on that. Except the boogeyman for you is the “overprotective parent” or the kid who can’t function as an adult because they weren’t allowed to ride their bike around the street at 9 years old. Or a better one is the imminent death associated with having a baby. That was one of your better ones. I’ll have to remember that one.

  • #254552

    omgnate
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    Yeah, well they are 19 and 21 now and they are fine..they did pee alone, I was not in there..Just voice contact..

  • #254535

    joy
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    I still occasionally take my 8 year old son in the women’s bathroom with me. It depends on the place.

  • #254547

    politicopedro
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    @sea 81908 wrote:

    Being aware not all boogey men are imaginary is also a good idea. They come in all shapes and sizes and ages.

    I can’t tell you how shocked I was when my former boss the priest was arrested and convicted. He totally fooled me and every other former CID and NCIS and other assorted investigators in our office. You never know.

    Exactly. My girls are seven now, I and I still do not let them go to a public bathroom alone.

    I check the stall and stand in front of the door or opening until they are done. If there is a family BA, I’ll use that; but will use the mens or ladies (actually prefer the ladies because it is almost always cleaner). Most of the women understand.

  • #254500

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    @joy 81919 wrote:

    I still occasionally take my 8 year old son in the women’s bathroom with me. It depends on the place.

    OMG! He’s ruined and can’t possibly be a future contributing member of society after that! :sarcastic

  • #254555

    Tominelkgrove
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    Way over protective. Sounds like what some cow town rube would do when visiting the big city.

  • #254548

    politicopedro
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    Whim has returned…

  • #254538

    cme5
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    I’m with DL. Way over protective and I think the behavior does teach children to be fearful. There’s a difference between careful and fearful, and checking stalls for bad guys is fear.

    Depending on situation, my 7 year old will go on his own. At a big game or similar event I or someone will go with him not for fear of some perve in the bathroom, but for not getting lost. I stood outside of bathrooms for my daughter when she was young, never employing the sweep of the stalls tactic.

  • #254501

    EGL Admin
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    I’ve never checked the stalls either. That’s a bit much. I think it also depends where you are. If we’re at Silva’s having dinner, I’m not concerned at all. If we’re at public bathroom on Pier 39 that might be another issue.

    Another concern, more so with boys than girls is older kids being idiots. I could see where a young boy goes into the bathroom and some older teens give him a bad time or tease him. To me that would be more likely than a pervert.

  • #254536

    joy
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    I wonder if a woman/man thing enters into this as well. I don’t check stalls in every bathroom I enter to use, but depending on the place, I do casually assess who seems to be in there with me. My husband would never do that.

  • #254539

    cme5
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    Yeah, time and place. About 10 years, or so, ago a young boy was murdered in a feeway reststop bathroom near San Diego by some lunatic. I think the mother was waiting outside and still happened. That type of thing is rare, like a lightening strike, but it does make us fearful. The reality is that most abductions and violence against kids and women comes from someone they know, or thought they knew, like Sea’s example. Stranger abductions/violence is rare.

  • #254540

    cme5
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    My wife and I are miles apart on safety. I let him ride his bike to the park alone and thought I was going to get divorced.

  • #254502

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    I do too depending on where it’s at. I keep my eye on people. In the men’s room your facing the wall so if its just me in there and some guy is standing behind me I turn my head to have him in my peripheral vision. My concern is more about getting robbed. But then I’ve always been more attentive and see things others don’t. My wife always laughs because everywhere we go, I see people we know. I always look around and see what’s going on.

  • #254503

    EGL Admin
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    My wife and I are pretty similar. She’s more inconsistent. We were some place and left something in the car in the parking lot and she was going to send them out to get it. I said no way. It’s not that I don’t want to trust them. I just know they don’t pay attention in parking lots. My kids are parking lot accidents waiting to happen. Every time we go some place I observe them. They are clueless. Then after I see them make a mistake I tell them what they did wrong. They are just not observant. We walk out of Bel Air on Waterman and they walk out towards the parking lot without looking both ways. Many times I’ve had to yank them by the shirt collar because a car was coming. I think I need a shock collar for them. Kids their age should know better. It’s not like we don’t tell them. My youngest is in a hurry and my oldest is a lolly gagger so as we are waking through the parking lot one is 5 feet ahead and the other is 5 feet behind.

  • #254537

    joy
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    You’ve mentioned this before. They do seem to be slow learners in this area. :sarcastic

    I’m the consistent one in our family. My husband is much more laissez-faire in general.

  • #254504

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    I know! They can put together a Lego set in an hour but can’t grasp the concept of parking lots

  • #254553

    omgnate
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    @joy 81943 wrote:

    I wonder if a woman/man thing enters into this as well. I don’t check stalls in every bathroom I enter to use, but depending on the place, I do casually assess who seems to be in there with me. My husband would never do that.

    While in Tahoe one year, I forget the name of the casino..After dinner I went to the rest room, in one of the stalls I heard a lot of noise..a man and woman were obviously preparing to have sex, stall door open..I momentarily froze and of course I was shocked..The man growled at me, what are you looking at *B? I ran and got security..So yes you have to be aware of your surroundings..

  • #254505

    EGL Admin
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    Guess bathrooms are dangerous

    http://m.kcra.com/news/campers-warned-following-attempted-kidnapping-in-lincoln/-/17404292/20872030/-/ln0418/-/index.html?utm_campaign=kcra+3&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=hootsuite

    The Placer County Sheriff’s Department is warning campers near Lincoln to be on the lookout for a man who attempted to kidnap an 11-year-old girl over the weekend.

    The girl was on a yearly camping trip with her family at Far West Lake when she said she was nearly kidnapped.

    β€œI thought he was going to take me and kill me. It was like really scary,” said the young girl. β€œI was walking to the bathroom, and he told me to come with him. He started chasing me and he tried to grab my arm but I ran and hid in the bushes.”

    The girl was able to get back to her family at their campsite Saturday night around 9 p.m. β€œShe was terrified and crying,” said Rosie Franco, the girl’s mother. “She told me someone tried to attack her.”

    Family members started looking for the attacker and the Sheriff’s Department brought in search crews and helicopters. The Placer County Sheriff’s Department has released a description of the man. He’s white, bald with a long white beard.

    β€œIt’s terrifying she had to go through this. I really hope they catch him,” Franco said.

  • #254527

    doclaguna
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    @EGL Admin 81956 wrote:

    I know! They can put together a Lego set in an hour but can’t grasp the concept of parking lots

    That’s because you don’t allow them to gain any experience. Gaining experience is the only way we master a skill set, and sometimes it’s scary because there is some risk involved.

    But yes, I have way more concern about accidents than abductions.

  • #254528

    doclaguna
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    @EGL Admin 82403 wrote:

    Guess bathrooms are dangerous

    http://m.kcra.com/news/campers-warned-following-attempted-kidnapping-in-lincoln/-/17404292/20872030/-/ln0418/-/index.html?utm_campaign=kcra+3&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=hootsuite

    The Placer County Sheriff’s Department is warning campers near Lincoln to be on the lookout for a man who attempted to kidnap an 11-year-old girl over the weekend.

    The girl was on a yearly camping trip with her family at Far West Lake when she said she was nearly kidnapped.

    β€œI thought he was going to take me and kill me. It was like really scary,” said the young girl. β€œI was walking to the bathroom, and he told me to come with him. He started chasing me and he tried to grab my arm but I ran and hid in the bushes.”

    The girl was able to get back to her family at their campsite Saturday night around 9 p.m. β€œShe was terrified and crying,” said Rosie Franco, the girl’s mother. “She told me someone tried to attack her.”

    Family members started looking for the attacker and the Sheriff’s Department brought in search crews and helicopters. The Placer County Sheriff’s Department has released a description of the man. He’s white, bald with a long white beard.

    β€œIt’s terrifying she had to go through this. I really hope they catch him,” Franco said.

    Bathrooms are dangerous – for slip and falls, accidental deaths, drownings. Maybe your friends can shower with the kids until they hit college. πŸ˜‰

  • #254506

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    @doclaguna 82456 wrote:

    That’s because you don’t allow them to gain any experience. Gaining experience is the only way we master a skill set, and sometimes it’s scary because there is some risk involved.

    But yes, I have way more concern about accidents than abductions.

    It’s a good thing you’re actually a doctor so that you can base your diagnosis on actual evidence instead of what you try to make fit into your presumptions. Kind of ironic in light of your FB posts though complaining about patients wanting you to prescribe meds without actually seeing them yet you try to play Dr. Phil with even less information. I would think a doctor would know better than to try and diagnose something without any information.

  • #254507

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    @doclaguna 82457 wrote:

    Bathrooms are dangerous – for slip and falls, accidental deaths, drownings. Maybe your friends can shower with the kids until they hit college. πŸ˜‰

    Okay Dr. Phil.

  • #254529

    doclaguna
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    @EGL Admin 82461 wrote:

    It’s a good thing you’re actually a doctor so that you can base your diagnosis on actual evidence instead of what you try to make fit into your presumptions. Kind of ironic in light of your FB posts though complaining about patients wanting you to prescribe meds without actually seeing them yet you try to play Dr. Phil with even less information. I would think a doctor would know better than to try and diagnose something without any information.

    You provided the info:

    “We were some place and left something in the car in the parking lot and she was going to send them out to get it. I said no way. It’s not that I don’t want to trust them. I just know they don’t pay attention in parking lots. My kids are parking lot accidents waiting to happen. Every time we go some place I observe them.

  • #254530

    doclaguna
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    @EGL Admin 82462 wrote:

    Okay Dr. Phil.

    No Dr. Phil and Oz are fearmongers. I believe in stratifying risk, and putting it into context.

  • #254508

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    @doclaguna 82464 wrote:

    You provided the info:

    “We were some place and left something in the car in the parking lot and she was going to send them out to get it. I said no way. It’s not that I don’t want to trust them. I just know they don’t pay attention in parking lots. My kids are parking lot accidents waiting to happen. Every time we go some place I observe them.

    It’s something called parenting. Observation is how you know you can trust them. They can go through a parking lot 100 times and not have anything happen and then on the 101st it can and it might be something that they won’t learn from because they are dead or badly hurt. There are times where you let them learn their lessons the hard way when it’s not dangerous.

    You have the need to assign reasons for things and you also like to exaggerate and extrapolate to the extreme. Like not letting a 9 year old ride a bike around the corner leads to a 24 year old going to the doctor with their parents. When the chances of that happening are as likely as being in an airplane crash.

    Like most parents, you assume that your kids will not be one of the ones something happens to and your kids will be the good ones. They may very well be. There is no statistical proof that shows your philosophy will lead to kids being anymore prepared for life at 18 than someone else’s because you can’t account for the variables and you don’t know all of what is going on. Raising kids to the ages mine and yours are is the easy part. Most kids are about the same until middle school and high school and that’s when it changes. If we are all still around at the time it will be interesting in 6-8 years to compare notes on what happened and how things are going. Raising teenage girls is something I don’t think you have a grasp of yet and I think it will give you a different perspective in a few years and you’ll be less judgmental of other parents.

    You’re caught up in percentages and risks, but like everyone else you don’t let your kids do anything they want. The reason why more kids are not kidnapped and harmed is likely because of the vigilance of the parents. You underestimate and overestimate risks to suit your arguments. Lots of people smoke and never get cancer but we know its an increased risk. Why do we wear seat belts? What are the odds of being in an accident serious enough that a seat belt prevents a serious injury? Remember when some of us were kids we didn’t use car seats and we rode in the back of pickups and we didn’t get killed. Unfortunately some kids were. Why make cars safer? We all minimize risks. You try to act like you don’t but you do all the time just like everyone else. Letting your kids do something at 10 or 13 isn’t going to make a difference at 18. It’s not like they will be 3 years ahead.

  • #254531

    doclaguna
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    Doc, what is your education in child development?

  • #254509

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    To give an analysis of anything, don’t you need to observe it and examine it first? You make observations about people based on what they type on a website without any actual first hand knowledge or seeing it in person. I don’t care what type of education you have that’s not going to be completely accurate. Just because some times it is, doesn’t mean it always is. When I see parents and kids in person, and observe them at school and other places that gives a person a better understanding of what they do and why things may be how they are. Your observations are often absurd and based on worst case scenarios, hence your comments about having kids in their 20’s still going to the doctors with their parents, which you know rarely if ever happens, but you’re trying to make that seem like a common result of parents who don’t do exactly what you do or think at the time you think it should be done. What you don’t see is no one is going to take your opinion on matters like this seriously because it’s not based on actual observation of the people involved. It’s your schtick or act. You lack the ability to be convincing in almost any discussion because of your arrogance. Telling people they are stupid if they don’t agree with you is never going to work. You’ll figure it out at some point.

  • #254532

    doclaguna
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    I never said you were stupid, just over protective. πŸ˜‰ You said it yourself. You won’t let them out of your eyesight. Is that incorrect?

  • #254510

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    @doclaguna 82491 wrote:

    I never said you were stupid, just over protective. πŸ˜‰ You said it yourself. You won’t let them out of your eyesight. Is that incorrect?

    I know I am protective, but not sure how overprotective in relation to other parents. I didn’t say we don’t let them out of our eyesight. My example above was about walking in parking lots. I observe them for safety reasons because for some reason they haven’t grasped the concept of safety around cars. As we walk out the store or in the parking lot I watch them to see if they are noticing cars backing up, pulling in, whatever. Sometimes they are, but sometimes they aren’t. When they aren’t, I point out to them things to look for, like the backup lights or if a car is on, is someone sitting in a car. If we were at Bel Air on Waterman and I forgot something in the car, would I send them out to get it? No. That’s not being overprotective, it’s being smart because I haven’t seen from them what I want to see regarding paying attention. Otherwise it’s Russian Roulette and chances are good nothing bad will happen, but if it does it could be life changing. That’s not one of those things where you live and learn. It’s not like touching a hot pan on the stove or the fire. I see adults though all the time not paying attention around cars too. Some people never get it, but at least with an adult you are more visible to drivers

  • #254541

    cme5
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    Speaking of parking lots, I think a youngster was just killed in a parking lot in Woodland a few days ago. Darted out in front of the car.

  • #254533

    doclaguna
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    @EGL Admin 82551 wrote:

    I know I am protective, but not sure how overprotective in relation to other parents. I didn’t say we don’t let them out of our eyesight. My example above was about walking in parking lots. I observe them for safety reasons because for some reason they haven’t grasped the concept of safety around cars. As we walk out the store or in the parking lot I watch them to see if they are noticing cars backing up, pulling in, whatever. Sometimes they are, but sometimes they aren’t. When they aren’t, I point out to them things to look for, like the backup lights or if a car is on, is someone sitting in a car. If we were at Bel Air on Waterman and I forgot something in the car, would I send them out to get it? No. That’s not being overprotective, it’s being smart because I haven’t seen from them what I want to see regarding paying attention. Otherwise it’s Russian Roulette and chances are good nothing bad will happen, but if it does it could be life changing. That’s not one of those things where you live and learn. It’s not like touching a hot pan on the stove or the fire. I see adults though all the time not paying attention around cars too. Some people never get it, but at least with an adult you are more visible to drivers

    Parents being careful in parking lots doesn’t bother me. You know how I feel about inattentive drivers. When I let my oldest roam, my big concern is drivers.
    What gets me is the unreasonable fear of abductions, lurkers in bathrooms, etc.

  • #254511

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    @doclaguna 82558 wrote:

    What gets me is the unreasonable fear of abductions, lurkers in bathrooms, etc.

    What’s unreasonable to one is not to another. On that issue, I leave it up to the parents. Of course it’s rare, but it’s not like it’s dumb luck like getting hit by lightning and it’s not out of your control like a plane crash or even a car crash if you are hit by someone. Of course you can make your kids more aware, but that can also lead to more paranoia from them too, so it’s kind of a catch 22. You have to live your life of course, but there is a difference between a 9 or 10 year old and a 16 or 17 year old using the bathroom.

  • #254534

    doclaguna
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    @EGL Admin 82559 wrote:

    What’s unreasonable to one is not to another. On that issue, I leave it up to the parents. Of course it’s rare, but it’s not like it’s dumb luck like getting hit by lightning and it’s not out of your control like a plane crash or even a car crash if you are hit by someone. Of course you can make your kids more aware, but that can also lead to more paranoia from them too, so it’s kind of a catch 22. You have to live your life of course, but there is a difference between a 9 or 10 year old and a 16 or 17 year old using the bathroom.

    You don’t see the sequela day after day after day if being afraid and anxious about extremely rare occurrences. You can avoid getting hit by lightening too, if you wanted to. The things you would have to do would make your life suck and make you look ridiculous.

  • #254519

    adiffer
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    Getting hit by lighting isn’t about dumb luck. It’s mostly about dumb all by itself. It’s not that hard to avoid once you learn what people are doing when they got hit.

    This isn’t about risk, though. If the perceived harm is high enough, many people don’t give a fig about the risks. They will simply do what it takes to avoid the harm. Those who avoid it most successfully without losing out on other important opportunities for success will get copied by the people around them. People copy behaviors that appear to work well enough. That’s all this takes.

    We used to take much higher risks with our kids a few generations ago, but we also used to HAVE more kids and child mortality rates were higher for things we couldn’t necessarily control. We beat down the mortatily rate and people begain to believe their kids SHOULD survive. That is the magic that has happened recently. No matter what the risks are, a person who believes that is likely to do what appears to be unnecessary and even ritualistic.

  • #254512

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    Last night we went to the drive in with the kids to see a movie. After about 45 minutes someone opens our truck door and it was a kid about 7 years old. Startled us and him too when he realized it was not his family. So we got out and asked if he was lost. He said he was looking for a white car and made motion with his hand that we determined to mean it was a truck like ours. My wife walked a little ways with him and he found his family. This was like 10 pm at night at the drive in, pitch black. You couldn’t see anything. Apparently they let him walk back to the concession area to use the bathroom by himself. My wife went to the bathroom a bit later and she said even she felt uncomfortable because it was so dark and you couldn’t really see the cars very well. Couldn’t imagine letting a kid that young go by himself. Not so much something would happen to him as it is he would get lost.

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