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Planning Commission to hear proposal for AM-PM and Taco Bell in Madeira

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  • #177406

    EGL Admin
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    On May 19, the Elk Grove Planning Commission will review a proposal to build an AM-PM gas station, Taco Bell and 3 retail buildings on the southeast corner for Bruceville Road and Whitelock Parkway. The project will be between the existing McDonalds/Walmart and Whitelock Parkway. The project is knows as Vineyard at Madeira. The Taco Bell and AM-PM will be separate buildings.

    May 19 Planning Commission Agenda

    Vineyard at Madeira project details

    ampmtacobell.png

    vineyard.png

  • #293742

    newmom
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    I still don’t understand the rational that putting fast food and gas stations so close to schools and housing is “smart” planning. No one wants these things near their homes and schools. You don’t see gas stations and fast food in the middle of housing developments in upscale areas with higher housing prices. Elk Grove can and should do better. Why? Look at the calls for police service at the WalMart and the AM PM on Elk Grove Blvd. Look at the trash always around the parking lots of the fast food places in town. Smell the grease fumes around the places. Who wants that in their neighborhood? Yes, Bruceville is a major thoroughfare, but zoning also put houses right up next to these places too.

  • #293762

    Anonymous
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    You are being factitious, right?

    Yeah, It is WAY more convenient to drive 25 miles to fill up my tank when I am out of gas?? or better yet, “fast” food is really convenient when it takes my whole lunch break to get there.

    I do NOT understand your rationale. Its called convenience. If I wanted to be far away from grocery stores, food, gas, etc.. I would move to the country. Do you expect one area in EG to have all the retail and food stores? They spread them out for convenience.

    I am NOT saying Elk Grove has had the most well thought out planning, but I can’t agree with your logic.

    I assume you live in this area? If you don’t, then this question goes out to the people that do. Did you think the large empty land would remain empty forever??? Houses are built, the next logical step is some type of commercial/retail buildings. How is this lost on people?

  • #293763

    Anonymous
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    @CJay916 125765 wrote:

    You are being factitious, right?

    Yeah, It is WAY more convenient to drive 25 miles to fill up my tank when I am out of gas?? or better yet, “fast” food is really convenient when it takes my whole lunch break to get there.

    I do NOT understand your rationale. Its called convenience. If I wanted to be far away from grocery stores, food, gas, etc.. I would move to the country. Do you expect one area in EG to have all the retail and food stores? They spread them out for convenience.

    I am NOT saying Elk Grove has had the most well thought out planning, but I can’t agree with your logic.

    I assume you live in this area? If you don’t, then this question goes out to the people that do. Did you think the large empty land would remain empty forever??? Houses are built, the next logical step is some type of commercial/retail buildings. How is this lost on people?

  • #293743

    newmom
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    Um….are there a number of gas stations already around town? Where in Elk Grove are you without an already existing gas station? There is one at Big Horn and EG Bldv, another outside the Auto Mall, another a block from that, 2 just over the freeway. Go west from there and there are 3 Elk Grove Blvd and Harbour Point….plus three more at Laguna and Harbour Point. So, no…..you don’t need to drive 25 miles in Elk Grove to find a gas station.

    And no, I don’t think the land needs to stay empty. I do think we need and deserve better planning than putting homes right up to convenience stores and not near the smells of fast food and gas stations. I was fortunate enough to grow up in a well planned, well maintained Master Planned community that is over 45 years old now and the housing prices are far higher, the community far more desirable, than the new homes in Elk Grove that have every design feature available in the last 5 years. Oh, the crime rate is lower too. I’ve state before how the planning in that area differs from Elk Grove. This is just yet another example.

  • #293759

    SteveB6509
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    I do live near there and I like the gas station there. It is a pain to gas up (I only use Arco so I need to go to the freeway to get gas). Of course, when Costco comes in, I will go there.

    I do have a major problem with the Taco Bell. This is not because it is a Taco Bell, but having two fast food outlets in the same center is a problem in my view. I would hope the Taco Bell is not allowed.

  • #293764

    Anonymous
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    @newmom 125771 wrote:

    Um….are there a number of gas stations already around town? Where in Elk Grove are you without an already existing gas station? There is one at Big Horn and EG Bldv, another outside the Auto Mall, another a block from that, 2 just over the freeway. Go west from there and there are 3 Elk Grove Blvd and Harbour Point….plus three more at Laguna and Harbour Point. So, no…..you don’t need to drive 25 miles in Elk Grove to find a gas station.

    And no, I don’t think the land needs to stay empty. I do think we need and deserve better planning than putting homes right up to convenience stores and not near the smells of fast food and gas stations. I was fortunate enough to grow up in a well planned, well maintained Master Planned community that is over 45 years old now and the housing prices are far higher, the community far more desirable, than the new homes in Elk Grove that have every design feature available in the last 5 years. Oh, the crime rate is lower too. I’ve state before how the planning in that area differs from Elk Grove. This is just yet another example.

    The first post you argue that the gas station is too close to houses. The next, there are too many? Which is it?

    And what is “too close to homes” Do we need to have a 10 foot buffer? 1 mile buffer? of bare land between restaurants/gas stations/Fast Food and homes? What is going to act as a buffer between houses and retail/commercial?

    But seriously, almost every community has retail/commercial/and other stores within a close proximity to houses. I don’t see the problem. You have the choice to buy/rent a home closer to these stores, or further away and be surrounded by more houses. And if you buy a house with a large lot of land close by, especially on the corner of a busy intersection, expect something to be built there. My last house had a fairly large lot behind it. Although I enjoyed the empty lot for a LONG time, I knew someone would eventually buy it and it wouldn’t be houses. I had a preference, retail over apartments. But common sense dictates that empty land in the middle of the city will be developed

    Looks like another NIMBY complaint to me.

  • #293735

    LC
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    I don’t care about the Arco, but now that I will soon be camping out in EG again I do want access to my AM Crunchwraps :biggrin:. Seriously, it’s a very good location for an Arco, and at least with our Chevron at EG and Big Horn we haven’t any any significant problems and it’s usually quite clean. We have the only interior gas station on the west side I believe, so the convention is to locate them close to the freeway. I think being an Arco rep is one of the toughest jobs in real estate. I did a number of 7-11 deals and those are hard enough–Arco is even tougher. No one wants them—until they’re open–and they just KILL both in gallonage and store sales. It’s always a fight, and often the NIMBYs rule for gas stations. No idea how this one will go,but I’d never bet on an approval this early in the process. What I WILL bet on is “suggestions” that they open without alcohol, or the store is OK, just no gas. It never fails, EVER, for one or both of those strokes of genius to be put forth in public hearings. Some operators will open without alcohol, some won’t, but my bet is ARCO will kind of want the gasoline sales ;-).

  • #293727

    EGL Admin
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    With the Costco coming to Bruceville, this gas station is less needed, but I think it is convenient for people in the area. The AM-PM by 99 and EG Blvd is kind of a pain to get in and out of. The Chevron on Big Horn is too expensive. There aren’t many Taco Bells in Elk Grove. Only two, so one more won’t hurt.

    We live in East EG near Bond and Bradshaw and rumor is that someone wants to put a gas station on the southeast corner. I am kind of indifferent to it. I don’t think it’s the best place for one with two schools on the corner across from it and a church on another corner, but I don’t see me fighting it too much. I did send a letter to the City Council and PC saying I didn’t think it was a good place. Some of the nearby residents are ready to grab their pitchforks. I don’t feel that strongly against it. I don’t think it would get much support from the city to go there.

  • #293744

    newmom
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    @CJay916 125776 wrote:

    The first post you argue that the gas station is too close to houses. The next, there are too many? Which is it?

    And what is “too close to homes” Do we need to have a 10 foot buffer? 1 mile buffer? of bare land between restaurants/gas stations/Fast Food and homes? What is going to act as a buffer between houses and retail/commercial?

    But seriously, almost every community has retail/commercial/and other stores within a close proximity to houses. I don’t see the problem. You have the choice to buy/rent a home closer to these stores, or further away and be surrounded by more houses. And if you buy a house with a large lot of land close by, especially on the corner of a busy intersection, expect something to be built there. My last house had a fairly large lot behind it. Although I enjoyed the empty lot for a LONG time, I knew someone would eventually buy it and it wouldn’t be houses. I had a preference, retail over apartments. But common sense dictates that empty land in the middle of the city will be developed

    Looks like another NIMBY complaint to me.

    My response as to location of existing gas stations in town was to your assertion that you often have to drive 25 miles to find a gas station when you are low on gas. Seems kind of difficult given the locations of existing gas stations in town, not even considering the 24 pumps opening at Costco just down the street later this year.
    Again-what most cities around here do-when frankly most of them look like crap-doesn’t concern me. And read again-I never said I want to retain open space. But it’s really not too much to ask to differentiate from residential communities and areas with fast food and gas stations.
    I messaged a friend’s dad today who is a Realtor in the town I grew up in. The 2200 sq foot, 4 bed, 2.5 bath house I grew up in, built in 1975 and looking every second of it from the outside, is worth around $775k. The nearest gas station is over 2 miles away one way, and another couple gas stations about 3-4 miles the other direction. There are no gas stations in the middle of town at all. They are all located near the freeways or within a block or two. There is also no fast food in the middle of town, with the nearest fast food being in the same center as the gas station that is 3-4 miles from the house and near the freeway (and in fact, those gas stations and fast food weren’t even added until around 1992. Prior, the nearest fast food was over 10 miles away, at the then second closest gas station). Smart planning can help create very nice towns that people want to live in, and help keep home values up. It really isn’t too much to think about when you see how nicely a well planned, well laid out city works year after year.

  • #293745

    newmom
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    @EGL Admin 125779 wrote:

    With the Costco coming to Bruceville, this gas station is less needed, but I think it is convenient for people in the area. The AM-PM by 99 and EG Blvd is kind of a pain to get in and out of. The Chevron on Big Horn is too expensive. There aren’t many Taco Bells in Elk Grove. Only two, so one more won’t hurt.

    We live in East EG near Bond and Bradshaw and rumor is that someone wants to put a gas station on the southeast corner. I am kind of indifferent to it. I don’t think it’s the best place for one with two schools on the corner across from it and a church on another corner, but I don’t see me fighting it too much. I did send a letter to the City Council and PC saying I didn’t think it was a good place. Some of the nearby residents are ready to grab their pitchforks. I don’t feel that strongly against it. I don’t think it would get much support from the city to go there.

    Aren’t there 3 in town? Harbour Pt, Laguna Blvd. and one on EG Blvd?

  • #293728

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    @newmom 125781 wrote:

    Aren’t there 3 in town? Harbour Pt, Laguna Blvd. and one on EG Blvd?

    Yep. Forgot about that one. Now we will have 4. 🙂

  • #293771

    Bainc
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    Newmom ~ What city did you grow up in? I love researching planning and development of cities and it’s amazing what you can learn from Google maps and street view.

  • #293729

    EGL Admin
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    @newmom 125780 wrote:

    My response as to location of existing gas stations in town was to your assertion that you often have to drive 25 miles to find a gas station when you are low on gas. Seems kind of difficult given the locations of existing gas stations in town, not even considering the 24 pumps opening at Costco just down the street later this year.
    Again-what most cities around here do-when frankly most of them look like crap-doesn’t concern me. And read again-I never said I want to retain open space. But it’s really not too much to ask to differentiate from residential communities and areas with fast food and gas stations.
    I messaged a friend’s dad today who is a Realtor in the town I grew up in. The 2200 sq foot, 4 bed, 2.5 bath house I grew up in, built in 1975 and looking every second of it from the outside, is worth around $775k. The nearest gas station is over 2 miles away one way, and another couple gas stations about 3-4 miles the other direction. There are no gas stations in the middle of town at all. They are all located near the freeways or within a block or two. There is also no fast food in the middle of town, with the nearest fast food being in the same center as the gas station that is 3-4 miles from the house and near the freeway (and in fact, those gas stations and fast food weren’t even added until around 1992. Prior, the nearest fast food was over 10 miles away, at the then second closest gas station). Smart planning can help create very nice towns that people want to live in, and help keep home values up. It really isn’t too much to think about when you see how nicely a well planned, well laid out city works year after year.

    I don’t know that having a gas station 2 miles away increases property values. Can’t really compare where you grew up and the property values to here. A shack in SF will cost you a lot of money too. It all depends on what a person wants.

    When I was in middle school here the only traditional fast food place was A & W. There were no drive throughs at all. We used to have to go to Florin Road to get McDonalds. The good ol’ days…. not so much.

  • #293746

    newmom
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    @bainc 125783 wrote:

    Newmom ~ What city did you grow up in? I love researching planning and development of cities and it’s amazing what you can learn from Google maps and street view.

    It was part of the city of Anaheim, and the post office only called it Anaheim, but residents called it Anaheim HILLS. Better not leave the Hills part out or you will hear about it, but it’s not physically connected to the city of Anaheim, as parts of Orange, Tustin, and Villa Park were between my town and Anaheim. Zip is 92807. Everything in 92808 came out around in the early 1990s. So yes, we had 1 gas station in town until then, the Exxon off Anaheim Hills Road. The next closest was an AM PM off Imperial Highway in Yorba Linda, close to the on ramps and off ramps for the 91 freeway. The later gas stations were added off Weir Canyon and the 91.
    Here is a link to the street view of the house I grew up in, and the map of the surrounding area. https://www.google.com/maps/place/6470+V%C3%ADa+Arboles,+Anaheim,+CA+92807/@33.8482044,-117.7675902,19z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x80dcd04f3181ed5d:0x49991c52a35a7c98!2s6470+V%C3%ADa+Arboles,+Anaheim,+CA+92807!3b1!8m2!3d33.8482!4d-117.767043!3m4!1s0x80dcd04f3181ed5d:0x49991c52a35a7c98!8m2!3d33.8482!4d-117.767043

  • #293747

    newmom
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    @EGL Admin 125784 wrote:

    I don’t know that having a gas station 2 miles away increases property values. Can’t really compare where you grew up and the property values to here. A shack in SF will cost you a lot of money too. It all depends on what a person wants.

    When I was in middle school here the only traditional fast food place was A & W. There were no drive throughs at all. We used to have to go to Florin Road to get McDonalds. The good ol’ days…. not so much.

    My point is that having gas stations very close to your house DOESN’T increase property values, and despite what Cjay says, there ARE towns without gas stations and fast food places right up against neighborhoods that have very high property values. People WANT to live in the town-they don’t look at it because they can’t afford to live in other near by cities. It’s different in SF because of the traffic conditions, the number of jobs there, and that fact there is no where else to build near by. This isn’t the case in the town I grew up in, where houses were built in the mid 70s and then not again until the the early-mid 1990’s. And guess what-somehow, we managed to survive with our one gas station in town-we just had to take responsibility to not let our tanks get low.

  • #293765

    Anonymous
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    @newmom 125780 wrote:

    My response as to location of existing gas stations in town was to your assertion that you often have to drive 25 miles to find a gas station when you are low on gas.

    I was being sarcastic with the above statement.

    I am not saying you are completely wrong or that the city of EG shouldn’t think about planning, but I am just trying to follow your logic. You don’t want these things by houses but where are they supposed to go?

    Even Anaheim hills has gas stations and retail on the corner of larger roads, which are by houses.

    You said that you don’t want a gas station near your home. OK, then where should they be? By the freeway? Well, there are hundreds of homes by the freeway. So, that doesn’t work for your logic either.

    Lets say we put all fast food, all retail, and gas, all commercial by the freeway. My question is, how far of a buffer should we have until houses are built? Then, what should that buffer be? bare land? If no buffer, then there will ALWAYS be houses next to gas stations. Or is it that you don’t want gas stations next to YOUR house??

    Imagine if all gas, food, retail etc, was all in one place. How bad would that traffic be. 150,000 residents traveling to one area for dinner, or gas, or clothes??? And how inconvenient would it be for those who lived on the opposite side of town away from the freeway. Remember a long time in EG when some of closest restaurants were in Sac? Movie theatre was in Arden? closest decent shopping was Arden? Wasn’t convenient at all.

    Also, comparing a small town 20+ years ago that is still only 50,000 people to Elk Grove today with 150,000+ and growing is not a good comparison in my opinion.

    Listen, I’m just trying to follow your logic, maybe I never will….

  • #293766

    Anonymous
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    @newmom 125786 wrote:

    and despite what Cjay says, there ARE towns without gas stations and fast food places right up against neighborhoods that have very high property values.

    Can you please let me know where I said the above statement??

  • #293748

    newmom
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    @CJay916 125788 wrote:

    I was being sarcastic with the above statement.

    I am not saying you are completely wrong or that the city of EG shouldn’t think about planning, but I am just trying to follow your logic. You don’t want these things by houses but where are they supposed to go?

    Even Anaheim hills has gas stations and retail on the corner of larger roads, which are by houses.

    You said that you don’t want a gas station near your home. OK, then where should they be? By the freeway? Well, there are hundreds of homes by the freeway. So, that doesn’t work for your logic either.

    Lets say we put all fast food, all retail, and gas, all commercial by the freeway. My question is, how far of a buffer should we have until houses are built? Then, what should that buffer be? bare land? If no buffer, then there will ALWAYS be houses next to gas stations. Or is it that you don’t want gas stations next to YOUR house??

    Imagine if all gas, food, retail etc, was all in one place. How bad would that traffic be. 150,000 residents traveling to one area for dinner, or gas, or clothes??? And how inconvenient would it be for those who lived on the opposite side of town away from the freeway. Remember a long time in EG when some of closest restaurants were in Sac? Movie theatre was in Arden? closest decent shopping was Arden? Wasn’t convenient at all.

    Also, comparing a small town 20+ years ago that is still only 50,000 people to Elk Grove today with 150,000+ and growing is not a good comparison in my opinion.

    Listen, I’m just trying to follow your logic, maybe I never will….

    There are not houses backing up to any fast food or gas stations. And yet it’s perfectly convenient for people living there to not have fast food or gas stations in the middle of town. Somehow people manage to survive. Again-housing prices continue to climb, the community is well maintained and, there is not a glut of houses for sale, despite the houses being 40 years old.
    There are other towns right next to it that are as nice as this one-unlike Elk Grove which has South Sac at one border and large amounts of nothing on the others, so it doesn’t have physical space to grow like Elk Grove does. It also didn’t approve everything that wanted to come to town when there was area to grow and develop, and the planning had high standards for it’s zoning and stuck to them. Density is lower than Elk Grove, and that also results in a lower population despite a large geographical area.

  • #293736

    LC
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    Irvine Ranch isn’t too far, and to me that’s about as good as planning gets. I think Anaheim Hills modeled it to a degree. It’s important to understand that terrain and freeways play a big part in master planning any community. The Central Valley is generally similar to Elk Grove in use stacking. When you get in the foothills the entire scheme changes as most traffic filters to either 50 or 80.

    Just north of you in the Basin, however, where it’s much flatter, the planning is more similar to the Central Valley than the OC, except it steroidally more dense with commercial near residential. Same with many parts of San Diego.

  • #293730

    EGL Admin
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    @newmom 125786 wrote:

    My point is that having gas stations very close to your house DOESN’T increase property values, and despite what Cjay says, there ARE towns without gas stations and fast food places right up against neighborhoods that have very high property values. People WANT to live in the town-they don’t look at it because they can’t afford to live in other near by cities. It’s different in SF because of the traffic conditions, the number of jobs there, and that fact there is no where else to build near by. This isn’t the case in the town I grew up in, where houses were built in the mid 70s and then not again until the the early-mid 1990’s. And guess what-somehow, we managed to survive with our one gas station in town-we just had to take responsibility to not let our tanks get low.

    I don’t think whether gas stations are 1/4 or 2 miles impacts property values. I don’t recall ever hearing a buyer say, “I don’t want to live here, it’s too close to a gas station…” Prices are pretty consistent within areas. Backing up to a major arterial can be a negative. That’s probably the biggest thing within a development. People want interior and on courts. The biggest negative is apartment complexes, but even then I don’t know that you can point to a price difference that is noticeable without looking at all the factors such as age of the home etc.

  • #293780

    JJJXK
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    and one on Sheldon Road in front of Winco

  • #293749

    newmom
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    No, but people DON’T want them, or a big box store, or fast food, literally over their back yard fence….the point of the distance was that there are communities with only a couple of gas stations in the entire town that somehow manage to have very high property values despite the inconvenience of not having those things around every corner. I was stating the distance from the house I lived in from 1977-1995 (but gone for during my 4 years in college most of the time) to the nearest, and for the most time only, gas station.

    Oh, and a big section of AH does have houses that back up to the 91 freeway. It’s one of the physical barriers that acts as a boundary for the town.

    To me, Elk Grove now looks exactly like the San Fernando Valley, and that’s not a good thing.

  • #293772

    Bainc
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    Most of Orange County was owned by one landowner (The Irvine Company) that took a very long view on planning and development. They didn’t rezone to make a quick buck. They have a high quality of life with open space, trails, jobs, a UC, and shopping. They also have physical barriers like the ocean and hills. Those that can’t afford the high price of housing are forced into the inland empire and commute in horrible traffic. Elk Grove for the most part isn’t master planned and far too much that was master planned was mostly all housing. I’m looking at you East Franklin.

    On gas stations specifically most of the time they are buffered by multi family housing, office, or commercial. The new AM/PM at Sheldon and East Stockton is unusual being so close to single family homes but this was a rezone.

  • #293754

    cme5
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    CJ – you are right on the money.

    Elk Grove, like every other city, has a General Plan and a zoning code. The GP will guide how the City grows by determining appropriate land uses and avoiding conflict between the uses and where appropriate put compatible uses near each other. Its why you’ll not see industrial development near residential, and airports built outside city limits. The zoning code will provide development standards to control development by limiting height, providing setbacks, determining lot size, and determining how much of the lot can be developed. Once again, to avoid conflicts.

    This process controls development and limits what builders can cram down the throats of the City, and also limits the ability of the City, and citizens, to cherry pick what they like and don’t like. This process makes it fair for developers and the City and the citizens.

    Elk Grove is a City of over 160,000. Most of the interior commercial, not near I5 and Hwy 99, is set up for neighborhood serving commercial. The 160,000 is a lot to serve. This gas station will serve the people in the immediate area. It will not be a draw for freeway travelers. And, its a compatible use with the other nearby commercial, and yes, also with the nearby homes in which it will serve. The Costco on the other hand can be more of regional draw. Any impacts of the gas station can be mitigated by the site design and how it conforms to the City’s development standards.

    Based on personal experience, I have not had any negative impacts living near a gas station. I am within easy walking distance to the Chevron that LC mentioned. Frankly, its been convenient. I’ll buy gas there in an emergency, and use the C-store regularly. Like its name, it’s convenient.

  • #293750

    newmom
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    @bainc 125799 wrote:

    Most of Orange County was owned by one landowner (The Irvine Company) that took a very long view on planning and development. They didn’t rezone to make a quick buck. They have a high quality of life with open space, trails, jobs, a UC, and shopping. They also have physical barriers like the ocean and hills. Those that can’t afford the high price of housing are forced into the inland empire and commute in horrible traffic. Elk Grove for the most part isn’t master planned and far too much that was master planned was mostly all housing. I’m looking at you East Franklin.

    On gas stations specifically most of the time they are buffered by multi family housing, office, or commercial. The new AM/PM at Sheldon and East Stockton is unusual being so close to single family homes but this was a rezone.

    Anaheim Hills is far inland in OC. It’s not coastal at all. Two more exits down the freeway, and you are no longer even in OC. The 91 freeway and the Santa Ana River bed are the physical barriers, with other towns (Yorba Linda, Tustin, Orange, Villa Park) coming right up to the edges of AH. Most people fly in an out of Ontario rather than John Wayne, and UCR was the commuter school rather than UCI.

  • #293773

    Bainc
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    I mean the general area was master planned. Not sure about AH specifically. The entire LA/Orange County basin is expensive partly because there isn’t anywhere left to build because of the ocean and hills. The same is true in the bay area. Most is built out so the new development is going to Livermore, Fairfield, Brentwood, etc. In Sacramento there’s farmland all the way to Stockton with no natural barriers. Housing prices are based on supply and demand and there’s always places to pave over in the central valley.

  • #293751

    newmom
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    AH was master planned, but is nothing but a suburban area. Despite the traffic to get anywhere, it’s still a highly desirable place to live because its very family friendly, clean, and safe. Great schools, very well maintained…..I can probably count on one hand the number of times my street in EG has been cleaned by a street sweeper in the last 12 years. Growing up, street sweeping took place every two weeks between 9AM-12PM, and if your car was on the street and they had to clean around you, you got a parking ticket. The streets in front of my house now always have cars parked from the house across the street, so it’s never been cleaned. Which street do you think looks better? The 45 year old street or the 12 year old street?

  • #293737

    LC
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    CME, seeing as you are following this thread, I’m going to take the opportunity to go off topic, because it is THAT time again! You have $200 of my money from lost bets on elections, and you’re not getting any more of it, but I’d love to hear your speculation for Trump’s VP. I’ll never forget when you correctly called Sarah Palin for McCain, and I had to look up the name. Let’s have it.

  • #293767

    Anonymous
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    @newmom 125791 wrote:

    There are not houses backing up to any fast food or gas stations. And yet it’s perfectly convenient for people living there to not have fast food or gas stations in the middle of town. Somehow people manage to survive. Again-housing prices continue to climb, the community is well maintained and, there is not a glut of houses for sale, despite the houses being 40 years old.
    There are other towns right next to it that are as nice as this one-unlike Elk Grove which has South Sac at one border and large amounts of nothing on the others, so it doesn’t have physical space to grow like Elk Grove does. It also didn’t approve everything that wanted to come to town when there was area to grow and develop, and the planning had high standards for it’s zoning and stuck to them. Density is lower than Elk Grove, and that also results in a lower population despite a large geographical area.

    There is a gas station on the corner of Anahiem Hills and Nohl Ranch Road. Which is located very close to houses and backs up to apartments.

    And I am still waiting for a response to Post #17, not to mention your responses to how EG should keep up with the populations needs and build fast food, gas, etc which aren’t close to houses.

    I think maybe you are just tired of Elk Grove. Maybe its time to move?

  • #293738

    LC
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    I think Newmom was simply pointing out that not all jurisdictions are planning in the same manner, and some will be more suitable due to individual preferences. She may not have considered the externals, however, but several of those have been pointed out in this thread.

    If you’ve driven these areas in the OC, most of them are really quite well done. That is to say, for our style of development, it would not be a good target :-). But more upscale areas such as Newport Beach are developed in a much more traditional fashion with plenty of convenience services throughout the city. It’s hard to isolate one style of planning and suggest that should be the model for everything else–there are far too many nuances to hold this opinion without being open to debate.

  • #293752

    newmom
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    This was in response to Cjay’s post #29, but I neglected to reply.

    Which is the one gas station I pointed out in my first post about this. It has 8 pumps. And, those apartments -actually senior assisted living -actually came much later, within the last 20 years. The senior living across the street came later too. The gas station has been since the mid 70s. The houses along Anaheim Hills Road are actually some distance from those 8 pumps if you look-they are separated by walking trails and plants, trees, etc.

    Here is a link to the street view for it. The gas station is clearly visible.

    https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Shell/Nohl+Ranch+Rd+%26+S+Anaheim+Hills+Rd+%26+Anaheim+Hills+Rd,+Anaheim,+CA+92807/@33.8458936,-117.7772506,154m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x0:0xc1be1ee64d2f04b4!2m2!1d-117.7767404!2d33.8459666!1m5!1m1!1s0x80dcd050a45dd51f:0xa5263dd7c468c06d!2m2!1d-117.7774765!2d33.8444492?hl=en

    As to keeping up with the population “needs”-I think many would say there are currently plenty of fast food and gas stations in town.

    As to moving-yes, this is not a place we will stay once our kids are out of school. But with a child starting high school in August, another currently in 2nd, and being self employed, moving in the near future isn’t really an option. So, Elk Grove eventually loses more of the kind of residents it should want to have. I don’t see a good long term future for EG unfortunately. Maybe having had the benefit of living in such a well done community and seeing how well it has been preserved leaves me with differing standards than people who are only used to cities like Sacramento.

  • #293739

    LC
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    Go ahead–call us bros Newmom 😉

  • #293774

    Bainc
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    One of my daughter’s kindergarten classmates is moving from our neighborhood near Batey to EDH right after school gets out. Sad to see them go. Good family, higher income. Selling and downsizing because of the schools and other amenities that come with EDH. That’s exactly the type of family Newmom is taking about leaving EG and backfilled by ???

  • #293758

    norules
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    Of course people move out of areas. Now to attribute it to the gas stations and design of the city, ehh. Good luck finding Shangri La, you ain’t going to find it. I get it that some people might not like it and want to move to a different area. Fine go ahead. But, really EG in a downward spiral? Come on.

    We had a neighbor move to EDH about 10 years ago, because too many minorities were moving in our area. Get this, they were from India. ha ha. Paranoia runs across cultures. Our neighborhood has been pretty peaceful. Except, we did lose a source of weed when a house down the street was busted….

    No place is perfect. I guess it is all a matter of perspective…

  • #293731

    EGL Admin
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    @bainc 125818 wrote:

    One of my daughter’s kindergarten classmates is moving from our neighborhood near Batey to EDH right after school gets out. Sad to see them go. Good family, higher income. Selling and downsizing because of the schools and other amenities that come with EDH. That’s exactly the type of family Newmom is taking about leaving EG and backfilled by ???

    Probably another decent family.

    I am not sure EDH is really well planned community either. Serrano is a lot of cookie cutter homes. It’s pretty typical of many communities in the area. It has some nicer things like the Town Center. Whether it is successful is another but it is very nice. I would like something like that here, but it won’t happen. What a lot of people like about communities like EDH, Folsom etc is it is more upscale, much less diverse. That’s personal preference.

  • #293775

    Bainc
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    Hard to duplicate hills, views, and a lake in the flat. It’s not gas station locations.

  • #293756

    violarose
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    I am disappointed, I am grateful for Newmom for speaking up. I just don’t have the passion anymore.

  • #293757

    violarose
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    When we were driving to Placerville , I had no idea why I am not choosing to leave here and go live in the hills where I belong. but I hate moving and re starting my garden.

  • #293755

    cme5
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    CME, seeing as you are following this thread, I’m going to take the opportunity to go off topic, because it is THAT time again! You have $200 of my money from lost bets on elections, and you’re not getting any more of it, but I’d love to hear your speculation for Trump’s VP. I’ll never forget when you correctly called Sarah Palin for McCain, and I had to look up the name. Let’s have it.

    Ha ha…forgot about that stuff. OK, LC, what’s the pick this year?

  • #293770

    gearshark23
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    I’m for it. I don’t live in the area anymore but I think it would be good for a gas station to go there. A lot of people are moving from EG to EDH or Folsom. I was in Folsom for a little while and I will never move there. (Yes, the guy who said he would move to Folsom has changed his mind)

  • #293776

    Bainc
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    @gearshark23 125834 wrote:

    I’m for it. I don’t live in the area anymore but I think it would be good for a gas station to go there. A lot of people are moving from EG to EDH or Folsom. I was in Folsom for a little while and I will never move there. (Yes, the guy who said he would move to Folsom has changed his mind)

    Did you move from EG or are you talking about not living near Bruceville/Whitelock?

  • #293761

    saramarshall
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    I live in Laguna and I don’t mind having gas stations near my home. It’s actually really convenient. I agree, I think it would have a negative impact on your property if your home was next door or your backyard backed into one. Sometimes gas stations can attract riff raft…perfect example is our Arco on Elk Grove and Harbour Point. Being off the freeway I’m sure doesn’t help. I won’t even go to that gas station. I don’t care if the gas is 30 cents cheaper.

  • #293760

    SteveB6509
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    @saramarshall 125840 wrote:

    I live in Laguna and I don’t mind having gas stations near my home. It’s actually really convenient. I agree, I think it would have a negative impact on your property if your home was next door or your backyard backed into one. Sometimes gas stations can attract riff raft…perfect example is our Arco on Elk Grove and Harbour Point. Being off the freeway I’m sure doesn’t help. I won’t even go to that gas station. I don’t care if the gas is 30 cents cheaper.

    I always gas up there and never have an issue (or even feel uncomfortable).

  • #293732

    EGL Admin
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    @gearshark23 125834 wrote:

    I’m for it. I don’t live in the area anymore but I think it would be good for a gas station to go there. A lot of people are moving from EG to EDH or Folsom. I was in Folsom for a little while and I will never move there. (Yes, the guy who said he would move to Folsom has changed his mind)

    What made you change your mind on Folsom? I was there last night. Needed some golf shoes and went to Dick’s. In the East Bidwell/Blue Ravine area, that looks a lot like most other cities. Lots of stores and businesses.

  • #293733

    EGL Admin
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    @bainc 125837 wrote:

    Did you move from EG or are you talking about not living near Bruceville/Whitelock?

    I think he moved to Lakeside/Laguna West.

  • #293769

    EGdonald
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    Cool. This reminds me of the movie Demolition Man 🙂

  • #293753

    newmom
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    And regarding the comment about cookie cutter homes-most of my town was cookie cutter homes. There were a couple sections of custom homes, and a section of very large, several acre estate homes, some that had been there since the 1950s (a friend’s home had a HUGE underground bomb shelter that was original to the property), but for the most part, the homes were much like Elk Grove-sections for different developers, every third house the same lay out, but with slightly different exterior appearances. Some HOAs with CC&Rs, some without.

  • #293777

    Bainc
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    Lot size matters. Cookie cutter on 0.1 acre lots versus cookie cutter on 0.25 acre lots are vastly different. Having open space being a creek or hills is also huge. The era of channelizing creeks to maximize the development area was a horrible idea. Look at all the creeks in South Sac that were narrowed into cement channels, Elder Creek, Morrison Creek, Florin Creek, and Strawberry Creek.

  • #293768

    Anonymous
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    @egdonald 125852 wrote:

    Cool. This reminds me of the movie Demolition Man 🙂

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFiDoOgRTpk

    Great reference!

  • #293734

    EGL Admin
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    Elk Grove has no topography so it is kind of limited in that regard. Not really many water features besides some creeks, which makes it harder to have the trails that people want. if we had a large creek or river that ran through then you could have a longer trail next to it. The creeks here start and stop and aren’t really much to see besides the Laguna Creek Trail.

  • #293778

    Bainc
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    Laguna Creek is very nice and not channelized like the aforementioned creeks in south sac. It’s no American or Cosumnes River but I bet most people don’t realize Laguna Creek starts way out past Grantline and Jackson Highway. Elk Grove Creek is small but it was channelized through much of the older parts of Elk Grove near EGHS.

  • #293740

    LC
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    @bainc 125887 wrote:

    Laguna Creek is very nice and not channelized like the aforementioned creeks in south sac. It’s no American or Cosumnes River but I bet most people don’t realize Laguna Creek starts way out past Grantline and Jackson Highway. .

    I do, because I pay Chuck Wagell $100 a year to fish the source. I didn’t do it this year because my fishing time is absorbed in a boat project which will be done about the time the bass are hiding out in the heat.

  • #293779

    Bainc
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    @lc 125889 wrote:

    I do, because I pay Chuck Wagell $100 a year to fish the source. I didn’t do it this year because my fishing time is absorbed in a boat project which will be done about the time the bass are hiding out in the heat.

    Is that the little fishing lake at Grantline and Kiefer?

  • #293741

    LC
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    @bainc 125893 wrote:

    Is that the little fishing lake at Grantline and Kiefer?

    Yes. It’s not very good for fly fishing, although last year I had two days that made the fee worthwhile. Plus it’s safe, easy, and close to me. They stock it with bass and catfish. Lots of panfish which I like too although they’re not very big. The crowd there is fine. Shore fishing is just as good as float tubing, especially if you’re using bait. For $100 its a good buy if you use it. I just do so much better at Rancho Seco for $8 a trip plus a little more time and gas I just prefer that, plus the season is longer, basically year around except the summer is very tough as it is in most lowland lakes in the Valley. Crowd is generally fine, very safe, good water access.

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